Episode 39: The Best Investment is the One You Can’t Touch

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Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the Social Edge Report. This is JR

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here interviewing Phillip or I guess I don’t want to really do an interview but

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I want to talk to you Philip. I know you came to us. So really appreciate you for

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having us here or I guess uh joining us. Yeah. Uh tell us a little bit about

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yourself, you know.

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>> Yeah. No, I’m uh from Boston, Massachusetts originally. I live in uh

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Stewart, Florida. I’ve been uh doing mortgages since uh man

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7th uh 2001 and uh

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>> I just celebrated my first uh father’s day at 48 years old.

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>> Wow. So So you’re you’re I’m sorry 48 years old right now and you’re now a

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dad. So just yesterday as recording this episode was Father’s Day. So how are you

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feeling? How does it feel to I I take it you’re a much a little bit of an older

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dad. So, how’s that been for you?

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>> Oh, look, it’s, you know, it’s great. You know, I have a lot more experience.

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Uh, you know, there there’s nothing more precious than a baby girl, right? So I

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uh feel really blessed but it also has helped me like you know reconnect in in

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terms of like how I want to uh help out with like financial literacy and really

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conveyed to like a lot of uh you know people kind of you know starting to

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invest what’s the right age you know all sorts of different investments it’s

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never too young so I think it’s it’s also shifted my mentality of you know

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how I can give back and and really help people uh you know they’re just starting

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out in life.

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>> I love that. I’m almost 30 and I don’t think I became became very well

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financially littered up until last year. So it took me a while like I understood

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how to invest but I just never really paid much attention about appreciating

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versus depreciating assets. As far as I’ve been told there’s a lot of assets

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that actually appreciate such as commodities and then you have watches.

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So, you know, we can talk about real estate because I feel like that’s an

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area that is per our last conversation very vastly unressed. And I think what

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kind of got us in this room is talking about Fanny May. So, we spoke about

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Fanny May enabling people to leverage their crypto to buy

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real estate. And you know, I think, correct me if I’m wrong, but you have

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some tips and other ways you can help, some things you can give to

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help people go in the right direction about this.

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>> Absolutely. You know, one great thing that uh one of

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the government entities has done, Fanny May, is that they’ve made it easier to

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accept cryptocurrency. Right. the uh head of the HF uh you

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know, HA uh Bill Py, you know, that was his one, you know, biggest thing was to

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get crypto more like accepted because well, like what I would tell people is

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you want to be diversified on your investments. You never want all your

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eggs in one basket, you know, forget this yolo thing. And crypto is a good

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way to to diversify, right? And now because

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>> okay

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>> Fanny May which is one of the government entities they’re more accepting of it

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the way it used to be before is they’d want you to kind of like have everything

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liquidated and then move it all over and you you know into another account that

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forces you to sell and takes like a big tax loss. That’s not the case anymore.

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So it’s definitely, you know, more accepted in terms of like using it for

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assets, using it for a down payment because the tried andrue easiest

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investment, you know, what I’d say for like average America, you know, you

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know, moderate income home buyers is real estate,

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>> right?

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>> It’s real estate. Like that’s their biggest asset. Is that what you’re

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saying? That is the what I would always say is tried and true where I think

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middle America, you know, that people should focus in on because you’re you’re

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gaining the whole value. Like even though you put nothing in or very little

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in, you get the whole gain on value. Like conversely, say you buy one

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Bitcoin, right?

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>> Okay.

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>> You only get the value.

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>> That’s almost like 70,000 today, I believe.

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>> 70,000. So you only get one Bitcoin hole.

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>> Yeah. You only get the the hole, right? And for

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>> you buy say a house like in like Jacksonville, Florida, 350,

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>> right? And you put very little in or nothing in and it goes up 10%. So it

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goes up 35,000 the following year, you get the full $35,000.

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Right? Okay. And that’s the beauty of it is is that if you look at a balance, say

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you you you know, everyone knows this penny doubling, right? Take a penny. So

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day one it doubles, you go two cents and then 4 cents and then 8 cents and then

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16 cents. It takes a long time for you to really build up this like nest egg

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that’s worth it. And because it takes such a long time, I feel like sometimes

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people are impatient and they take maybe unnecessary risks. Okay.

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>> It happens all the time. I’m one of them.

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>> Yeah. Truthfully. Right. And so the be the beauty of the real estate play is

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you buy it, right? It’s not sexy. It’s not. In fact, it can look crappy. I You

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could actually buy like a crappy looking home, right? And right, it goes up and

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you get the whole gain and then the whole gain comps because it’s like say

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you buy a house at 350. Imagine starting your 401k with 350. That’s like starting

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on day 20 of the penny doubling versus day one or two.

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>> So you’re saying 401ks which are mostly recognized to be owned by the owned by

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you but enabled through the employer. You can sort of start your 401k not

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necessarily with buying stocks but also with real estate. Is that kind of like

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what you’re saying?

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>> No. What I’m trying to say is is that when you start investing you usually

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start at at the number zero, right?

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>> Yes.

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>> So day one is zero, right? But if you buy real estate, your your starting off

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number is the value of the home.

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>> Okay?

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>> So

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>> I follow that makes sense.

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>> So that’s like a really big thing of like what why it’s so important I think

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and and another really important thing where crypto does a really good job of

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is getting people excited to invest. So you mentioned earlier that it crypto

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is really good at diversifying your portfolio. Do you mean like owning one

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or a few coins depending on the type of coin like blue chip meme coins you know

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like what what does that mean for you to have a diversified portfolio in crypto?

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>> What that means is one I think you should have a couple coins but two I

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think every investor should have a little bit of crypto right. Yeah,

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>> because it’s a it’s a good solid,

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>> you know, investment. You should never be like all in on anything. I think the

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mentality for especially someone younger is the mentality should be save.

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That is the mentality is how much can we save on a monthly basis because then you

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can take your savings and then reinvest it into your investments.

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So, what’s funny is you mentioned don’t go all in on your assets, but is there

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ever a good opportunity? Like, just for my education and for the audience’s

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education, is there ever is there ever a time where going all in on an

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investment, is it ever worth it,

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>> boy,

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>> you know,

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>> you know, I’ve seen people, you know, only invest what you can

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afford to lose. So, I would say you don’t want to go all in on anything

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because the loss will be painful for most people. It’s not worth it.

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>> Just, you know, you know what’s crazy is that if you’re just fundamentally sound

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and you make and you’re just, you know, you’re you’re the tortoise here, you’re

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going to do great over time. The issue with people is they want to make it in

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bit one big swing, right? And this is the wrong way to look at things in life.

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>> When you say big swing, kind of like as in, excuse me, as in, hey, you know,

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right now maybe I’m trying to have like I have like a reachable goal that isn’t

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very far off in the horizon. They go all in to get to that goal

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faster. Like they go

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>> Yeah. Or they want to go on vacation. So they’ll say, “Hey, I want to make more

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money on something. let me just okay get a free vacation and put more money

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>> into you know whatever it is a certain crypto a certain whatever but I would I

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would say this

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>> investing is like golf the goal is not to lose money

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>> that’s the way it is and the way a lot of people play it is is like a long

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drive competition where you got these big strong guys and then they try to

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smash the ball as far as they can and that may work well at Topgolf or for

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Facebook clips. Yep.

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>> But just remember that the top golfer, the top people in the world are driving

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the ball, none of them have ever won anything in professional golf. And you

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will also win nothing in professional investing if you’re uh you know, you’re

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all in. You know, it’s not going to be sick. That’s why I like real estate.

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I’ll tell you why. Some of the best money, the best investments are the

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investments you can’t touch. Uh okay. So let me let me repeat that

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just to make sure I understood. You’re saying the best investments that you can

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ever make are those that you cannot touch like physically.

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>> Yeah. Because sometimes if it’s if an investment is a little bit less liquid,

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it benefits the uh customer because they make poor decisions over

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time. They make reactionary decisions. This is actually the reason why in state

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if people work for state governments, you can’t touch your pension unless you

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quit or you retire. Why? Because historically they’ve made bad decisions.

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They ran the math and said all of our

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>> all that money.

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>> Yeah. They they make like all bad decisions. I mean, you can’t trust

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people, right? They they they they think they know. and the government realized,

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you know, if you want a pension, right, and then this is what you need to do.

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And that’s what I would say, that’s actually like why I like real estate

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because it’s a little bit less liquid, right, than other investments, right?

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>> Okay.

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>> Not only do you get the leverage,

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>> but you but it’s a little bit more uh illquid than say stocks.

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>> Okay. So, that makes sense. So essentially people are dumb or I guess

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people have bad tendencies sometimes they will if they had access to all

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their 401k like no repercussions they would simply blow it away making dumb

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decisions is that kind of like maybe

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>> that’s absolutely what you see in fact if you look at it

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this is the issue of with of professional athletes a lot of them made

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a lot of money but it’s not what you make it’s what you save right

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>> okay

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>> this is a big thing you You know, people always say, “Oh, man. How did this guy

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that made 60 million go bankrupt,

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>> right? Or 30 million. There’s no limit. Like, it doesn’t matter how much you’re

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up, you’ll end up losing everything if you’re not if your strategy is not

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correct.”

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>> So, can you educate us on what is a good strategy? I think I understand the

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point. Essentially, hey, if you have access to all this capital and you’re

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not smart about it, you’re going to go bankrupt. So how can we mitigate?

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>> Yeah. So I would say the first thing this is a great thing about a certain

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strategy is is that when you’re is understanding your finances this is

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really important. Every month you should sit down if it’s with your you know if

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you’re married with your spouse or a financial advisor or someone to go over

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all the bills. The reason is you actually need someone else to make sure

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a second set of eyes that you’re being responsible and you’re not making

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mistakes, right? Like everyone has this in every form of government, in every

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form of a a company, right? You have checks and balances and people like

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looking at things. So I think that the first thing is to take control of your

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own finances. make sure you don’t have any ridiculous subscriptions,

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reoccurring things, and to be able to justify certain spending, right? You’re

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less likely to do. Now, some people don’t want to answer to people, and

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that’s okay, but I’m just telling you, the first step of of investing is is

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going over your monthly finances to stop any dumb purchases. This is

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>> so not to interrupt you, but just to add to your point, what I’ve been told that

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has changed my life has been what you can ma I’m sorry, let me say that again.

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Um, what you can track, you can manage. So, you’re saying track your finances,

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your expenses, so that way you can better manage them. Basically,

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>> 100%. This is the pivotal moment for people to get like step one in financial

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literacy is to like is to like manage it. And actually,

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you’ve seen a whole bunch of apps recently come out, right?

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>> And money do they basically cancel subscriptions,

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>> right?

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>> I didn’t even know.

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>> Yeah, there’s a lot of these apps.

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>> It’s fun.

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>> There’s like a They’re all coming out, but they basically allow you to see

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reoccurring charges. You know, these street interviews. I love the street

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interviews, right?

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>> Oh, like on you’ll find on short videos they’re interviewing people like, “Show

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me your expenses sort of.”

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>> Yeah. Well, they usually do it have done it previously. I think it started off

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with of just, you know, when people were originally doing restaurants and dating,

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but now it’s been into finances. And what they really look for is Yeah. Would

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you like to try to They try to get people to straight interview. And what

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happens is, and it’s tougher because not everyone wants to show their finances.

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>> Yeah. It’s a very delicate matter

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>> that like people have shown without even knowing. They’ve like paid for like

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exspouses subscriptions to like Netflix and all

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these like reoccurring charges that like they didn’t even like know like paying

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for like electricity bills of places that are non like all these things all

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these reoccurring charges and I think you know going over this is like so

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important right to avoid the you when you have What what’s the best

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disinfectant? Sunlight.

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>> Uh in what in what aspect? Like I love getting sunlight exposure, but it could

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also be bad for the skin um because of the UV index. If it’s after a certain

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height, then that’s where it gets dangerous. Is that kind of like the

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metaphor you’re going?

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>> Well, what what I would say is sunlight kills germs, right? So, when it’s light

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out, that’s a great disinfectant. when you go over your finances

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>> and you have to defend them,

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>> then you’re going to spend less money. This is a big thing that people have.

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It’s like, you know what it’s like almost and it’s like a government.

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Everyone always says

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>> we just got to raise taxes or spend more money, right? And that’s the thing.

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They’re like just tax the rich, tax, tax, tax, right? Okay. And the thing is

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is that not that I’m opposed to ever taxing anyone. So, let’s get this right.

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I I don’t mind taxing the rich. However, what I find is it’s never a spending

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problem. It’s never an income problem. It’s a spending problem.

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>> Even on a government thing, right? You know,

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>> I agree.

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>> I’ll give you guys like an example, right? The lowest form of government,

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right? the smallest type of government is is typically like if you own a home

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it’s it’s like an HOA community, right?

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>> And so,

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>> okay,

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>> the smallest form, but it’s usually like an HOA community, right? Like that’s

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like legally protected by like state law, right? Is usually like an HOA

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community.

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>> And I’ve heard a lot of bad stories about HOA.

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>> And you know why? I’ll give you an example. I showed the HOA community that

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if we went with a different landscaper,

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>> we could save. And that’s usually the biggest line item for even if you’re a

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renter. Understand this. Your biggest expense if you if you’re part of a

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community is always landscaping 100%. This is always number one. And so

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>> landscaping is a make or break for

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>> Yeah. That’s where that that’s where uh [ __ ] that’s where it’s much easier to

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embellish charges is the is in the landscaping item.

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>> And so um you know I found I give you an example 40% less with a competitor right

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and you’re like wow you you should be looked at as a hero because you save

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40%. Let me tell you what happened, right?

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>> Okay.

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>> The uh president of the board, right? And just so people know transparency,

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I’m not on the title of my house. My wife is, right? But we live together in

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the state of Florida.

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>> You know, you know, I basically have certain rights. But anyways,

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>> they don’t realize that I know all my rights because it’s community property

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state in Florida. And so, okay,

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>> what do they do as opposed to when you save someone 40%. They don’t say thank

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you. What they immediately do is they send you a cease and desist. And you’re

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like, why?

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>> A cease and desist.

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>> Yeah. Because you’re like, why? Because you’re showing like all this waste. And

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you’re like, well, who would benefit from the waste? The people on top,

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>> right? because when there’s so much waste, what happens

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is and it doesn’t matter who it is that

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>> that the people at top get get to enjoy. You’re like, well, what do you think’s

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happening? I don’t know. Like they were like um they take the money, right?

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There’s obviously like a kickback, right? And this happens and and and and

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it’s almost like expected, right, in HOA communities when you look at the

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difference like usually like if you look at say Costco, right? Costco usually has

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like lower prices in the supermarket because they’re buying at scale, right?

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So they you buy big boxes and they’re selling a million of them and Costco

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doesn’t like paint the floors and it’s like a warehouse with big boxes in it,

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right? Okay.

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>> Because it’s a warehouse of big box and you pay a membership fee, the the prices

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are like a lot less, right? So

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>> yeah, you get them.

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>> The more the more that you buy, the lower the item price should go down,

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right? Per unit.

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>> So you think if you have like a 100red units, the price should be less because

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you have a 100 units, right? Think about it, right?

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>> So So

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>> yeah. Okay, here’s what happens. The price is usually more. You’re like, how

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is this? How the math isn’t math? because people are are are basically

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stealing, right? They don’t care. And why this applies to the to like every

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single person is like people never question budgets. People don’t dig deep.

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So for your personal finances, you need to question yourself. Can we save money?

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Where can we save money so we can invest? But the same mentality is that

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you need to put on yourself, you need to put on others. Because this is very

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important, right, of of being able to be critical of spending because we’re

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almost brainwashed.

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>> Yeah. Like it’s a spending problem.

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>> Yeah. We’re almost brainwashed and it’s so crazy, right? Like like you see like,

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oh, tax this person and that like they make it like political, right? Like just

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tax everyone. But it’s not like they got enough money. Like I promise we don’t

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have spending. We don’t have like an income problem anywhere, right? There’s

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no like city or state or even it’s usually what it’s usually uh a spending

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problem and and to be like upfront with people like I lived with this in my

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whole childhood.

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>> You’re like why? I’ll tell you this. My dad was a physician so physicians make

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pretty good money, right? He’s a cardiologist. But

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>> you you have to be very smart to do it.

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>> Yeah. But the sad part is my mom had a spending problem. Want to be upfront

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with us and we were always in debt. You’re like, “How are you always in

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that?” Because my mom would spend too much. It didn’t matter. My dad could

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have been, you know, he was he was my dad had to work like two jobs. You’re

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like, “No.” Why? Yeah. That’s rough.

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>> Two jobs.

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>> It ended up getting causing that’s the second leading cause of divorce is is

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what?

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>> Is is is is money, right? And so, you know, I I I bring this up to be, you

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know, financially responsible that it’s never really most people that will be

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like listening to the podcast or overall, they they’re not going to have

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an income problem. They’re going to have a spending problem, right? And the

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spending is what we need to get under control. So, you can start to like

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diversify and put your money into real estate, into some crypto, into some

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stocks. It all works together, but it starts with, you know, getting your

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spending under control, which doesn’t seem like like it’s like great because

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they people make you seem like you can like tax your way or spend your way out

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of problems. And the reality is is that life is a game of pennies, right? This

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is what happens, right? And they I know people don’t think like this. You’re

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correct.

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>> Yeah. Like people waste money all the time. They’re wasting here. They’re

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wasting there. And uh you know, I’m just looking out for people, you know.

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>> So, let’s talk about a little bit more on financial literacy. When I was when I

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graduated college almost, it’s been a while, but I started by listening to

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Dave Ramsey and other financial gurus. And I think what stood out to me about

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Dave Ramsey is kind of like uh saying your problem that you have that you see

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with people is there’s a spending problem. When people are in too much

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debt, they got to eat beans, rice, stay at home, cook, don’t eat out, don’t go

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out for like x amount of months or weeks until you pay off whatever debt that is

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you have. So the one thing that I’ve learned since is not all debt is bad.

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And I for some reason Dave Ramsey thinks all debt is bad. I don’t think

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Sorry, I got a notification. Um, the editor will cut some of this stuff out.

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Um, but I was what I was trying to say is not all debt is bad. Like real estate

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debt, you don’t you don’t classify it as bad. Correct. Because I certainly

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>> No, absolutely not.

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>> Okay. Bad debt would be probably high interest like credit cards, maybe a

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personal loan or car loan, all that is very high debt. So let’s talk about what

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people should do if they are currently living in debt. So none I’m not a

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financial adviser but one thing I love to get is people’s opinion because

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people who are better well off they got there because their spending was

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controlled or at least they were able to make more money. So what would you

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advise for people if they may have too much debt or if they’re trying to

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control their spending problem? How how maybe is there some sort of correlation

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that goes with real estate or just general?

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>> Yeah. Well, here’s what I would tell someone is is that

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you know, you do have you most of the time it is a spending problem, right?

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This is exactly where where it’s like a fat person. Most of the time I could say

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it’s an eating problem,

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>> right? This is a bigger thing.

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>> Okay, so that’s a good point.

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>> There’s no difference. you need to get the bills and you need to eliminate your

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credit cards and you might have to eat eat some rice and beans. You might have

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to make a sacrifice, right? And people just, you know, this

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is my my biggest thing and and you’re like, well, what would you tell them?

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Dave Ramsey like if you had to pick like and I don’t agree with Dave Ramsey on a

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lot but if you had to pick Dave Ramsey or the other extreme so you get two to

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one eliminate debt or or or like whatever the opposites wheel and deal

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>> right he’s way more right for most people than wrong.

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>> Okay.

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>> So I would go with David Ramsey. I like David Ramsay in terms of that where

25:12

David Ramsay gets where I think too much is like you know he he he makes it too

25:20

long to buy a home right like I would buy a home there’s a value of time so I

25:26

would take advantage of buying a home and then paying off the home okay it is

25:30

good debt but I wouldn’t like your first step

25:35

if Dave Ramsey and me agree eliminate that you eliminate debt, you

25:40

increase your cash flow.

25:43

>> First thing is increase your cash flow.

25:45

>> Mhm. Sorry, I’ll let you finish your point, but I do have a question about

25:49

like real estate now that I mentioned it, but what were you saying?

25:52

>> No, absolutely. What’s what like what’s on your mind with the real estate?

25:56

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, so one thing I have a I have a buddy who helps with taxes and he

26:01

was talking about on he made a video online talking about how real estate

26:07

taxes can also be an it can be very d expense as well

26:14

because let’s say you buy a home it’s worth a million dollars but with a

26:19

30-year mortgage so that’s I guess the average but it’s a pricey home for a

26:23

million dollars but let’s say um property property taxes are about 15%.

26:28

So I don’t remember the exact analogy, but let’s say you or I guess it was the

26:35

interest rate, it was like 15%. So by the end of the month, um or I guess by

26:39

the end of the mortgage, you’re essentially paying 150,000 extra on top

26:45

of the million. So um do you think that is still a good debt to have when you’re

26:51

paying more in interest? Well, you’re paying a substantial amount in interest

26:55

compared to your mortgage.

26:57

>> Yeah.

26:58

>> Yeah. It’s it’s the best safest investment. Well, let’s let’s go over

27:02

the math. Say I buy a house for $400,000,

27:06

right?

27:06

>> Okay.

27:07

>> And on average, it goes up 8% a year because we live in Florida, right? We’ll

27:11

just use eight. So over 30 years, right? You add a zero. That’s the quick math.

27:18

So 400 is now worth four million, right? So in 30 years, if you did nothing

27:25

special, you have $4 million asset, right? Guaranteed. This is pretty much

27:30

it.

27:31

>> Now, what you’re saying is, you know,

27:34

>> it appreciates very well.

27:36

>> Yeah. Because you get the whole gain his where his argument is wrong is that

27:41

you’re starting your baseline at 400,000 that became 4 million. And his argument

27:47

is, well, you could have saved the difference and then invested this and

27:52

no, but you’re you’re starting your baseline much lower. So, it’s like

27:57

you’re starting day one of the penny doubling. If you buy real estate, it’s

28:01

like starting day 22. So, you’re skipping many years of investing. So,

28:06

>> okay,

28:07

>> the real estate is a much better play for a lot of people.

28:14

>> Okay. Um, so here’s another question I guess just for my understanding. So it

28:19

makes sense. It looks like real estate really, and I’ve heard it all over like

28:23

real estate actually makes people very wealthy. Um, it’s not really rocket

28:27

science. So anyone can become a a you know, someone who sells homes. I

28:32

forget the word, but it’s very hard to actually be successful in being a um

28:39

what’s the word? I’m sorry. the someone who sells homes,

28:43

>> a real realer.

28:45

>> Thank you. Yes, a realer. Um, it’s it’s very hard to actually become successful

28:50

in this field, but yet it’s something a lot of people can get into. So, does

28:54

that ring a bell? Maybe you’ve heard of this before.

28:56

>> Yeah. What I would tell people people is this. Look, most realators fail, right?

29:03

>> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I wouldn’t recommend being a realtor as a profession because

29:06

it’s a really hard profession, but you don’t need to get into investing in real

29:11

estate. You just need a good realtor. You don’t have to become the realtor.

29:16

>> Okay? So, when you are buying homes and let’s say you’re trying to flip them,

29:21

let’s say um create a renting an array of different rental units, you don’t

29:28

need to become a realer yourself. You can simply get another person to help

29:32

you do that for you.

29:34

>> Absolutely. That’s the way I would exactly look at this, right? Just focus

29:39

in on the investing end and let someone else will be a real estate agent because

29:44

you give you you bring up a good point. A lot of people think they’re saving

29:48

money from being the realtor, which is true. The you know, the average

29:53

commission is two to 3%. But you’re like, well, what would you

29:57

think? That’s money. Let someone else deal with

30:01

the re the being a realer and you focus in on what you’re doing best, you know,

30:06

which is probably not being a realer.

30:09

>> Definitely. And the reason why I ask that is because and I think this is how

30:13

Graham Stefan, which is very popular YouTuber, which I listen on the

30:16

occasion.

30:17

>> He was a a realer, you know, he got his real estate license and then he flipped

30:23

homes himself, I believe, and that’s how he became very wealthy. in aside from

30:26

being a YouTuber. But um that that was kind of like my the reason why I asked

30:31

is because I did contemplate being a realer myself, but I didn’t know much

30:35

about it and my profession is mostly building software and then being a

30:40

podcaster in the occasion. But um so that makes sense. You don’t need to be a

30:46

realer to buy homes and to be successful at buying

30:51

and selling homes. So

30:54

>> absolutely not. you’re on the right path, right? You just you just need to

30:58

find a good realer, right? Okay. But

31:01

>> focus in on what you do best, you know?

31:05

>> So, okay, I know we’ve been talking a lot about financial advice and and just

31:12

some ways that people can look at how to fix their spending problems. But what I

31:17

want to talk about now is a little bit more on crypto with the time that we

31:20

have left. So, as far as crypto goes, um, have you had any clients? I believe

31:26

you you have this experience where you’ve worked with relators and you

31:29

might be a relator. Correct me if I’m wrong. Um, have you had any new clients

31:34

who’ve actually tried to leverage crypto recently or even before? How has that

31:42

whole in that whole experience been for you?

31:44

>> Yeah. Well, you know, since Fanny May accepted it and I think the big

31:48

institutions accepted it, more people are saving in crypto, right? And I think

31:54

one great thing is is that it gets people excited that wouldn’t have been

32:00

excited in investing, right? So, you have a whole new people that now want to

32:05

invest, which means they’ll create better habits to save, right? And we’ve

32:09

seen more people that are now able to, you know, buy homes because they

32:14

invested in crypto. I love crypto for that reason responsibly. It’s really

32:19

great. I would never tell anyone to put all in on anything, but everyone should

32:23

be saving and then investing and some of that money should be in, you know,

32:27

crypto because it gets people excited. And uh I love it for that reason. And I

32:34

think look, the reality is is that we’re more at the beginning than near the end

32:40

of crypto. So I think it’s going to keep on evolving. There’ll be more utility to

32:45

it in the future. And it’s going to be like a really like mature like asset.

32:52

And when we’re like, you know, older and grandfathers, you know, we’ll go to our

32:57

grandkids and be like, “Yeah, I was there in the beginning.” But I would

33:00

tell you the year 2026 is definitely way closer to the

33:06

beginning than near the middle or the end. And that’s what’s I think really

33:11

exciting with everything that’s happening in the economy is that it

33:15

gives people a lot of young smart people a new opportunity to make, you know,

33:20

have great jobs and wealth that weren’t doing this before.

33:25

>> I agree. I I think that’s what excites me the most. I think crypto the closest

33:30

that I could explain it to someone who doesn’t know anything about it at all

33:34

would be close to forex or foreign uh currencies just because the way they

33:39

operate is very similar although it’s more technical but um what do you think

33:44

the endgame looks like for crypto maybe let’s say what do you think it’ll look

33:49

like in a 100 years from now

33:52

>> that’s a great question I think there’ll be more adoption for crypto right I

33:56

think there’ll be more more ways to pay, right? It’ll be like, you know, I think

34:01

like it’s gonna be more accepted to buy a home with it even more than it is now.

34:08

I think you could see some people getting more options to get paid in

34:12

crypto. I just think it it’s it’s still maturing, right? And you it’s heading in

34:18

the right direction, which is adoption,

34:21

>> right? It’s never as fast as people want,

34:24

>> but it’s heading in the right direction. when Fidelity is is accepting it then

34:30

that’s a good thing and I think it’s gonna continue legitimate like over time

34:35

like people want it like and I think that’s what some naysayers love because

34:39

if it’s not as fast as people want then they say well you know

34:46

it’s not but everything has its own adoption schedule. It’s like

34:52

watching your your your your newborn, you know, start to, you know, sit,

34:58

crawl, and then walk. Every newborn has its own schedule. And the same thing for

35:03

crypto. It has its own schedule of adoption. And I think a hundred years

35:09

from now, it’ll be just as accepted as the US dollar. Well, maybe not as much

35:15

as the U, but right there because I think the US dollar is the uh is this

35:20

like the gold standard, right? But

35:22

>> yeah, I

35:23

>> right there equal, you know,

35:26

>> I was in New York for an event and there’s a lot of diversified people

35:31

there. We were talking about what we think is the most the the most valuable

35:36

asset in the world today. I initially thought and said gold because the market

35:41

cap is like 30 trillion at least and this person told me it’s the US dollar

35:47

and I was kind of baffled because I’m like dude the dollar is not it has no

35:52

support and then my buddy at the time there he was there and he said no

35:56

actually it’s backed by the military but then

36:01

you know he made that point and then the the guy who asked me that question said

36:05

no so all these other countries They’re still getting dollars. They have

36:08

treasuries. They’re buying bonds. You know, the dollar, if it were to lose its

36:14

dominance, we would probably be in a recession faster than the AI bubble can

36:19

pop. So, um, the dollar is very important, but I definitely think

36:24

there’s room for other assets like Bitcoin. I think Bitcoin is going to be

36:29

in a 100 years from now worth a lot more if it continues to the appreciating

36:34

value. There’s this whole thing with ETF flows, the macro, the having cycles, you

36:39

name it. Like, Bitcoin is more complicated than people realize. Um, but

36:44

in 100 years from now, I think it’ll be worth a lot more. And I also think

36:47

because of its scare scarcity, it could become more reliable than even gold

36:52

because gold, you know, you can mine it in some other planet if we get to that

36:55

point. But, um, you know, Bitcoin, there’s only 21 million of them. So I

37:02

think it’s going to become a reliable form of validating scarcity. Does that

37:07

>> I totally agree. I I I think Bitcoin, you know, has a is a really good place

37:12

as a store of value. That’s its utility as a store of value, right?

37:17

>> Yes.

37:17

>> So I think that is like really exciting. Like that is the gold standard. So if

37:23

you’re like, well, what do you think? I think like you know people like you know

37:28

Bitcoin is great. your you know Ethereum is really good right like some basic

37:33

coins now some of the coins people want to hit the lottery on right like these

37:38

meme coins I’m not and I think this is where things have to kind of get like

37:43

worked out is that like you know to to not you know mix up you know the the

37:50

gold standard

37:52

>> right of coins versus and I’ll just say like in my mind there’s like two right

37:58

now Ethereum and Bitcoin You could make an argument, you know,

38:01

what’s three and four and all these fancy things, right? But in my mind, if

38:06

you just ask two people, those are probably the two most well-known coins,

38:10

right? The other one have value. I’m not sure, right? It’s like you’re well, give

38:16

me a comp for like a regular person.

38:19

>> You’re not investing in the US dollar anymore, right? You’re investing in like

38:23

some country I’ve never heard of, right? And I think that’s I I think that

38:30

kind of like people like get hurt on speculation.

38:35

>> People get hurt on certain what on these type of things, right?

38:39

>> And I don’t want to see people get hurt on speculation,

38:42

>> right? And I so I think like people have to become better educated

38:48

>> uh of of like what’s the you know what you should think of or you know what you

38:52

should invest in, right? It’s the same thing for stocks. invest in companies,

38:56

you know, right? I heard Apple is a good company, Nvidia, like these are big

39:01

companies, right? And I think, you know, you have certain cryptos that are the

39:06

same, but you know, imagine you were a celebrity and you were

39:12

pumping up, say, like a a company that was like absolute crap, the company,

39:17

right? Like,

39:19

>> okay.

39:19

>> Yeah. Just was like something something horrible that didn’t work. you would

39:24

like lose credibility, right? And I think

39:27

>> sometimes like when you when you see some of these cryptos, right, because

39:31

they get mixed in in the same sentence, like crypto gets mixed in the same

39:36

sentence as Bitcoin and it shouldn’t, right? So I would say there has to

39:41

eventually be more of like a separation or certification

39:46

of you know certain of the cryptos like I think the Bitcoin or the Ethereum

39:51

versus like you know a coin named after a celebrity right I think

39:59

>> I and by the way there’s there’s a lot of strict rules like you can’t just pump

40:05

up companies right it’s illegal right because it’s it’s more regulated You

40:09

can’t just, you know, pump things up. In fact, Elon Musk got in trouble for this,

40:15

>> right?

40:15

>> SpaceX was it? Or was it?

40:17

>> I don’t know. There was some other company at once. He he got in trouble

40:20

with the SEC. But I think that

40:23

>> I know what you’re talking about.

40:24

>> I think people have to be careful of, you know, sponsoring certain coins

40:30

because anyone can create a coin. Creating a coin is much easier than

40:34

creating a company. Yep.

40:35

>> Right. and then pumping it up and what like that, you know, you know, a lot of

40:40

people have, you know, a couple bad apples have ruined it, right? And so,

40:45

>> you’re like, well, what do you think? Well, you know, I I do think it needs,

40:49

you know, certain types of like regulation in terms of like, you know,

40:55

and I know people say, well, that’s not the beauty of decentralized. Look,

40:58

there’s a difference between a decentralized technology and, you know,

41:03

someone pumping something up for some, you know, for someone that doesn’t know

41:08

anything, selling it as as a real investment and then selling all your

41:12

cryptos five minutes later as you’re buying, I’m selling. This is completely

41:17

different like, you know, arguments, right? And so

41:20

>> for sure you know

41:22

>> I do think there has to be certain regulations um to give more confidence

41:26

because I think you know there you know crypto is a great thing and I think it’s

41:31

it’s still evolving it can create America is the leader of crypto right

41:36

now and I want it to keep on being the leader right we don’t want you know

41:40

other countries to take it over you know we have a lot of I think one one thing

41:44

that that’s made you know America so great is the American dream we can have

41:48

a lot of entrepreneurs reneurs. But like I said, there’s a bigger difference

41:52

between an entrepreneur and it creates a great utility of a coin

41:57

versus a pump and dump scheme. This hurts crypto. It hurts.

42:02

>> Yep.

42:03

>> You know, it hurts, you know, people investing

42:06

>> and and I’m for uh you know, crypto and I’m for entrepreneurs,

42:12

>> but you’re like, well, what happened? It has to be done. Well, you know, I think

42:17

maybe maybe some self-regulation or the government has to get involved in

42:21

certain other ways, right? And I think, look, it’s come a long way. Bitcoin

42:26

started off like the Silk Road, right? It started off in a poker hall. That’s

42:30

how it got big, right? And and and the reality is I could have invested in

42:34

Bitcoin and I I didn’t because it was was involved in poker and I didn’t want

42:38

to play poker when I was like way younger, right? I hated gambling. And so

42:43

I just think that like the maturity will happen and they’ll come up with ways to

42:49

kind of protect people and that protection is good. I would also say

42:53

that to the crypto uh community. Protecting vulnerable people that don’t

42:58

know is a good thing, right?

43:01

>> And for others,

43:02

>> but but allow it to keep on evolving. If people want to create their own currency

43:06

or their own coins, God bless you. But as long as it’s the under the intent of

43:11

a better utility, a better way to do it. Its utility cannot be I’m selling what

43:17

you’re buying.

43:20

>> Yeah. Like you don’t want if people are going to make a token or an asset, it

43:24

cannot be simply on speculation. There has to be actual utility. So, I think,

43:28

you know, Solana is a great ecosystem, but right now they’re plagued by pumpf

43:32

fun, which is literally a platform that makes a whole hundreds of millions in

43:38

commissions off of pump and dumps. And whenever people are buying it, and it’s

43:42

kind of like the crypto lottery is how they’re treating it. But you’ve been

43:47

mentioning utility, and I know real estate is some utility. So, can you

43:52

maybe define a little bit more on how utility that is practical looks like

43:57

versus something that may not be as useful even though it’s still got the

44:02

utility label on it?

44:04

>> Yes. So, a utility would be for Bitcoin’s utility, it’s a store of value

44:09

because there’s a limited number. That’s the function of it, right?

44:13

>> Um, a utility for like real estate would be you get rent. A utility for stocks is

44:19

if it pays it a dividend. So you got to ask yourself what what item of value

44:26

does this now give me for investing in this, right? Like what item of value?

44:34

And a lot of the coin, not a lot, but certain coins don’t have items of value.

44:39

if it like allows you to do a transaction less expensive like then

44:45

that’s the utility, right? But if it’s just a meme coin and there’s no utility

44:52

to it or there’s no like there’s no like like you can’t redeem it or there’s no

44:57

like value then there’s no it makes no sense because you can’t it’ll never

45:04

produce any value. It’s you know and that’s the biggest thing. Can it produce

45:09

value in some sort? And a lot of the coins don’t. And that’s where I think it

45:15

has to kind of I think like get cracked down on is things that never have any

45:21

chance of providing value need to be eliminated, right? Like you just can’t

45:27

create fake companies and then try to sell them, you know? And I think once

45:32

that happens, you know, more of a infrastructure,

45:38

then I think it’s going to really take off much further, right? Like I I’ll

45:43

tell you one thing. If there wasn’t these crap coins, right? Bitcoin would

45:48

not be 70,000. It would be like million right now.

45:53

>> I think this I think it’ be 7 million or a million. It’d be way higher. People

45:57

can’t figure it out. You have a lot of fancy people. They start creating

46:00

inflows and outflows and fancy charts and they went to fancy schools and they

46:06

don’t know why, you know, Bitcoin is not a million

46:09

dollars right now. I know why it’s not a million dollars. 100%.

46:15

>> I think I follow you. I think what you’re saying and just for my

46:18

understanding, I’m asking for clarification like maybe because crypto

46:23

right now has had such negative PR or people only associate as a scam. people

46:28

are just not putting their money on crypto as much or they’re taking it away

46:33

because um first of all I have a few reasons why I think Bitcoin is the way

46:37

it is right now but is that more or less your take like Bitcoin could be worth a

46:41

lot more but because

46:42

>> I think it would be worth tremendously more not a little bit more I mean I

46:46

think it’d be worth like

46:48

>> you know and look I’m just a casual observer I I would call myself an

46:52

observer of what’s happening

46:55

>> okay

46:56

>> that’s what I Sorry. Go ahead.

47:00

>> No, I’m I’m an observer. You know, I I feel the market. I feel everything. I

47:04

see it. I talk to a lot of people and, you know, I I know how to correct it,

47:11

right? And I think, you know, what made crypto so great, and it is great, is

47:17

also hurting it at the same time. And I think once it gets, and people think

47:24

regulation is always bad. It’s not. And I think

47:27

>> yeah,

47:28

>> you know, once uh that that gets cleaned up a little bit, right? I mean, there

47:33

was you had Jake Paul have his coin and like everyone lost their money, right?

47:38

Jake Paul, right? And then you had this uh other girl, I forget what her name

47:44

was, but she was she was famous for for uh God, you know, for uh for, you know,

47:52

for for BJs. She made a lot of money and she sold her coins, right? And then

47:57

Okay. I didn’t know any better, right? I forget what her name was. She made money

48:01

from a street interview and then got famous overnight.

48:04

>> Oh, the Hawka girl from

48:06

>> Yeah, the Hawka girl, right?

48:08

>> That one. Yeah,

48:09

>> the DJ girl. The Hawka girl, right? And

48:14

>> why did this happen? Right. and she got involved in the scam and you know she

48:21

lost every the little fame that she had little credibility that she had. What

48:28

did she do? She was on a roll at least. She was selling t-shirts and she was

48:32

like really likable. Her thing was

48:34

>> she really was likable.

48:35

>> She was like a super likable person. She wasn’t the most pretty or whatever. She

48:40

was at the right place at the right time and she would just came off as likable

48:45

and she went from like likable to a villain.

48:49

>> Yep.

48:49

>> Like pretty quick and like how do you do this?

48:53

>> She got involved and then you know the the federal government got involved. I

48:58

think she had to give back everything. She didn’t she was she did make a couple

49:02

of million but then lost it. And the same with Jake Paul like they they get

49:05

involved. People get involved in these things and famous people have and they

49:11

Tom Brady did I think too, right? They got involved in

49:15

>> he was actually involved with FTX. You were mentioning

49:18

>> all these things for for no reason, right? They they get involved in these

49:23

things for no reason, right? And you know, then what happens is is that it

49:29

hurts the community. So I think the community was was was is being hurt and

49:35

has been hurt by by uh not ad you know while the technologies advanced but by a

49:43

couple bad actors right and I think

49:46

>> yeah these people have a big influence too

49:50

>> I agree like I think it’s a large uh these bad apples unfortunately they have

49:55

a very big out um influence and I don’t think they may always have started with

50:01

a bad intention. I try to give benefit the I try to give people the benefit of

50:05

the doubt. But some of the people that you didn’t mention that I was

50:09

immediately thinking of were um the famous boxer um

50:14

Jake Paul. I mean he’s he’s not

50:16

>> and Floyd Mayweather got in trouble for

50:20

>> Yeah. he was pumping a lot of NFT collections and everything and I just I

50:26

knew something was very fishy about it, but I guess um that’s just my natural

50:32

you you grow more wary when you’ve been scammed quite a bit. I’ve been scammed

50:37

before, but not as much as I believe as other people have with NFTTS. But with

50:42

Floyd Mayweather, he released quite a few. And then, you know, Trump also

50:45

released a few. And then the memecoin, that’s up to the speculator to look at

50:49

those things. But for me, you know, by not fully diving into these trends, I’ve

50:56

been able to not lose a lot of money as other people I’ve heard have lost money.

51:01

>> So,

51:02

>> yeah. And I’ll tell you, my mom’s an artist, right? And my mom’s old, right?

51:06

I’m 48. She’s like 76, right?

51:09

>> And she’s an artist. And and last year when whenever the hide or two years ago,

51:13

the height of the the NFT market,

51:16

>> my my 78-year-old mom made an NFT of me.

51:21

>> And you’re like, well, what did it sell for? What did a Phil Gans NFT sell for

51:26

>> at the height of the market? It sold for $200.

51:30

>> Wow. $200.

51:31

>> So, who would want to buy a Phil Gans? Why wouldn’t he buy a Phil Gans NFT? And

51:37

like I was probably upset for multiple reasons. One, I don’t want an NFT of

51:42

Phil Gans. Let’s start with this. And two, I was upset like to my mom like

51:48

she’s an artist. It’s very hard for artists to make money. So, this was like

51:51

a new thing for artists to make money. And I said to myself, if a Phil Gans

51:56

NFTt someone bought for $200, I’m like, what is like

52:02

it’s like, you know, I mean, I’m like, this has gone too far, right? And so I

52:08

think that’s when I knew NFTTS were not like the world’s greatest invest in

52:13

investment.

52:15

>> It’s all just pure speculation. I think some of them try to get creative with

52:18

some utility like concert tickets or exclusive perks and benefits, but the

52:24

delivery of all those perks and benefits just always fell short. So I think

52:29

people caught on like no people are just trying to take our money. And I think

52:35

you look at NFTs now, everybody hates them. I cannot think of one person who

52:39

absolutely likes them or loves them.

52:41

>> Yeah. And I’ll tell you this, you know, that is a utility. They would try to tie

52:46

the the picture with a benefit. You’re right. A concert ticket, right? So, it

52:50

would be this. And before that, eBay used to be illegal. You know, it used to

52:56

be legal to like resell tickets. I think this has all changed, but in the

53:00

beginning it was like illegal, right? And so what people would do was is that

53:04

to confuse the value, they would say, “We got New England Patriots tickets and

53:11

a picture of Tom Brady and a mug and a water bottle.” Now, the picture of Tom

53:18

Brady and the water bottle is probably worth like $3. And the tickets had a

53:23

face value of 150, but they would sell the tickets for $800. But the by

53:28

creating, you know, fake value for this picture and the mug, you were able to

53:35

like get around and sell your tickets also because you couldn’t figure out

53:40

like what all these other items were worth, right?

53:43

>> And this is this went on for a little bit, right? And this is kind of was like

53:48

the NFT playbook of creating, you know, certain values to that. And that’s, you

53:54

know, and I’m all for people being creative, but I’m mostly for

54:00

transparency. Just think we need to be transparent and

54:03

honest. Be creative.

54:05

>> But you can’t fool people, right? That’s not fair, right? And and that’s what

54:11

they would say. In fact, you’re seeing this right now, the World Cup, people

54:14

are getting tricked on tickets and this and that. And you know, I feel like

54:19

every third day there’s something in the newspaper of some family that try to use

54:24

their last remaining life savings to see a game and can’t get access to the game.

54:28

Sofor like the finals. So I see what you’re saying.

54:44

>> Yeah. you know, and people the people that can least afford it get totally

54:49

54:29

>> yeah, especially with the World Cup right now being kind of around, I was

54:32

trying to actually buy tickets are actually super expensive. And then the

54:35

Knicks versus Spurs for basketball, tickets were like a couple thousand each

54:40

like scammed, right? And this is

54:52

>> Yeah. A lot of those

54:53

>> they’re set up all over the place, right? I mean, the story of me going to

54:59

Florida is I thought I was getting a good deal, so I bought the hotel through

55:04

a third-party website, right? And then the third party website after they

55:09

collected millions of dollars for the Super Bowl went bankrupt, took my money

55:14

and then I didn’t have a place to stay in Miami for the Patriots Falcon Super

55:18

Bowl. I did stay in Kilargo, Florida, but that’s another story. I’m saying is

55:23

when people want something, people put up websites and way to buy things and

55:28

they take advantage of of people that don’t really like know because it’s

55:34

already such an expensive event that people look to save money, right? This

55:38

is true. They can barely even already afford it. So, you’re susceptible to

55:43

quote a good deal because you’re just trying to be able to go and get in.

55:48

>> No, it’s a great point. But I will say um we are almost out of time. So before

55:54

we end today, Phil, you know, really love talking to you. It was it was a

55:58

great pleasure. Do you have any, you know, final thoughts maybe for the

56:02

audience? Any final piece of advice or if you want to give a shout out or you

56:07

want to leave a message?

56:09

>> Yeah, my my final adi advice for people would be to go over your monthly

56:14

finances and save your money. And if people have any questions, you can

56:20

always uh send me a text or call me 617529-9317

56:28

or you can go on LinkedIn or Instagram at askthe mortgage expert and find me.

56:33

I’m Phil Gans. I’d love to help uh you know chat finances help you in any way I

56:38

can.

56:40

>> Great. I love that Phil. Thanks so much and thank you all for watching.