Episode 36: The April 2026 DeFi Massacre: Infiltration, AI Hype, and the Lazarus Group 

00:00

Welcome back to another episode of the Social Edge Report. This is JR. And I’m Leon. I think it’s been a little bit of a break. I don’t actually remember the last time we released. I agree. I think we’ve been busy. I’ve certainly been busy. working on MintLog. A lot of good stuff is coming out there, but we simply couldn’t leave you back. We’re trying different things. We want to do more of like a sports take to what we’re doing here just to keep things a little bit more interesting.

00:27

I’m also, we’re also pretty big fans of TVPN, so not to take away, you know, their style, but let’s be honest, every idea, everything out there is already plagiarized, so nothing’s unique anymore.  Except maybe the cadence of our episode, or how we’re gonna design these.  But yeah, so  this time around, we have quite a lot of stuff to talk about. We wanna talk about… April has probably been the worst  month for crypto ever, as far as DeFi goes. And then…

00:57

Mythos. Everyone is losing their minds over mythos.  I have thoughts, Leon has thoughts, and we want to forward-late all of it because this is all cybersecurity related. And then, yeah, maybe go from there. What do you think, Leon? It’s a lot happening and everything’s moving faster  and  every single day seems like a  hack  or some sort of uh drama and DeFi crypto. So… oh

01:27

I’m going into this like, I would say like 50 % blind. ah I know some of the hacks, I know some of the things, but honestly, everything’s kind of blurring together. Yeah. So I’m happy to kind of show you what I’ve been going over this week. So I’ll share my screen. Here’s the scoreboard for what’s happened this month. There’s over $605 million  in attacks made in DeFi and which zero of it has been recovered.

01:55

And this happened in last 19 days? Go ahead. I’m a little surprised that nothing’s been recovered. Not a cent of it? Like,  it  was all in stablecoins. I thought Tether locked up some of it, right?

02:10

um No, I don’t think I couldn’t find anything about tether locking anything up honestly This is all really new. So I’m honestly not too surprised. Nothing has been recovered. But also I mean anything happened so Maybe they could have recorded recovered something. I Think I saw something on Twitter and now the fact of the matter is  is it? Did it happen?  Yeah, they did the kelp Dow

02:39

Did you see that one? I did see that one.  Yeah, the kelp doll. They  froze  some of the money.  Oh, well, I don’t think that’s considered recovering because you’re not necessarily I mean, you’re preventing money from being stolen, but you’re not necessarily recovering the money that was stolen itself. Do you know what I’m saying? I think that’s where I’m coming from. Or rather, that’s where I’m personally.

03:07

I guess it’s like, don’t know how it works with like the stable coins um because of it. Like, yeah, like it’s,  I guess you’re right. Like essentially it is like, uh it’d be clawbacks and stuff, but  there is like, Tether is  participating and even clawing back some of the money from the drift hack. there.

03:35

They’re in process of it, I suppose. I’m just shocked that none of it has been.  Not none of it’s been  recovered so far. Wow.  And from what I learned  in Q1, because we’re already at Q2, you, in April, but in Q1, there was a total of almost $500 million stolen. So April alone is more than all of Q1. And also this in just one month, this was over 12 protocols and 37 decentralized apps.

04:05

or at least year to day there’s 37 apps that were hit in just 19 days. Which is pretty insane. Yeah, so I guess just to kind of kick this off, um let’s talk about Drift protocol, which is probably  what kicked it off on April 1st, less.  So I was on Twitter, like  my usual day. I was walking with my fiance at the time when I learned about this actually.  If I share my tab. So what I want to tell you, Leon, is…

04:34

I think you and I were talking about it and I was walking on KT Trail here in Dallas. But Lazarus group is this is from ZackXBT. I won’t read it all, but basically he did all his, you know, on-chain detective work as he usually does. And I mean, he don’t cover a lot of money  and essentially correlated the crime of the drip, the drip hack.  ZackXBT as this renowned on-chain detective as he is, he was able to find

05:03

raise all of this attack on the drift protocol which is on the Solana chain to go back to  a North Korean hacking group um and on top of it you know  they’ve they’ve been pretty open in the community like they’ve been open on LinkedIn on X you know  they’ve they’ve posed as normal people I guess outside of North Korea but in the end they were all just North Korean spies  so

05:33

Because they actually worked at Drift. This  is the hacks that have been the biggest,  the most interesting part of it is  they are, and  maybe you weren’t, I don’t think you were clear on what you were saying, but uh they were working  as employees of Drift when they were trying  to  take to the money. And it’s more of a social engineering  hack than…

06:00

than anything, essentially they get access to it, they’re trusted, and then all of a sudden they drain wallets and money and move things. Yep. So here’s the scoreboard or the box score. This happened April 1st. This was on the Solana blockchain. Over $285 million were lost in damages and it took about 12 minutes in total to drain this. There was no bug. It was just social engineering.

06:28

And this entire thing, apparently according to Zach XBT, was about a six month infiltration.  And yeah, I mean, this is the scoreboard.  I think, I think the bigger thing here is that Tether is replacing USDC as part of the drift protocol. Like the, yeah, cause  it’s deceiting,  um, circle as like kind of like the primary.

06:55

stable coin like when you think a stable coin most people say USDC even though USDT is the larger volume provider but the fact that they’ve come in I believe they gave 148 million to kind of stabilize the protocol and and help DC USDC I think that’s the bigger part that tether is trying to like rescue everything and tether is willing to help claw back and kind of

07:22

stop this because Circle’s unwilling to freeze those  assets that are moving into North Korea. They were just like, no,  that’s not…  They took a principled stance against it, which I found very odd considering they’re known to freeze other wallets and other transactions if there’s suspicion in our court orders.  This seems way more clear cut and they should freeze that money.

07:51

It’s a very tricky situation. If you ask me, I would also be on the side of just  don’t freeze anything ever at all. That’s how crypto should be. But if you’re already doing it, do it for the right reasons. In this case with North Korea. I mean, yeah, circle drop the ball here. I don’t know why. That’s why I think, you know, if you want to take the stance of, you know, don’t freeze anything, that’s why you got to use like Bitcoin or a non,  you know, Bitcoin, Ethereum, some something that’s not, you know,

08:20

controlled via government  toll like regulation or even just owned by like a VC, you know, like Solana. Like I think you got to pick and choose on  what chains you support then if you’re on centralized systems like Solana. I don’t think you get away with, you know, saying, hey, you shouldn’t freeze anything or even circle like those are governmental like crypto versus, you know, Bitcoin, which is being used by Iran to

08:50

You know, essentially put a tax in the straight over there. Man, that whole conflict is pretty crazy with Iran. It also somehow though. Yeah. Oh, a hundred percent. Like it’s when, you know, the North Koreans are taking advantage of, of everything right now. I still have a conspiracy theory that all of these hacks are kind of related to clarity act and just kind of making defy and crypto look unsafe and.

09:19

and their inability to actually like claw back this money is kind of also showing that, you know, it’s going to be a greater, you know, pain for banks and regulators to actually like control the money supply, which, you know, makes it look better for a bank.

09:38

Yeah, I think that’s the play banks are playing here because you can always lobby  not just politicians, also news media outlets, PR relations, you name it, just to push  a certain kind of narrative that you want. know, oh what is it? Like there are some  there are some public outlets out there that news outlets out there that you can just pay to be there. You can just pay them to release certain kind of articles. So

10:08

It’s not necessarily open media that’s genuinely happening. So to your point, yeah,  that  that’s probably what’s happening.  However, I do have another big story. If you thought the drift protocol was a pretty big deal. Well, we have a lot more to talk about, believe me. So  what I think is probably the biggest loss this month is from the kelp Dow, which you mentioned earlier. So this is the play of the month scoreboard.

10:37

So this happened between April 18 and the 19th. It happened on Ethereum plus several other layer twos. About $494 million in total damages happened. So total damages are $292 million dollars drained from Kelp. $196 million was bad debt from Aave and 6.6 was a total value log from Exodus. So again, almost $300 million dollars drained. And then

11:08

You know, 116,000 RS wrapped Ethereum, which is 18 % of supply was taken here. um What is bad debt? Bad debt. uh What is that? I know it looks a little bit weird here based on the scoreboard, you know.  so was  bad debt wasn’t stolen directly. It’s second order damage from the RS ETH that’s being used across the DeFi. Yeah, I guess so. So it’s collateralized.

11:38

out there. like essentially the loans that can’t be fully or played because the collateral is no longer worth enough. So it becomes bad debt. It’s  not that the bad  it’s not that I get stolen. That’s how much the third world effect is on it. Third world effect is. Okay well that’s yeah because Aave had to freeze the RS ETH markets due to the bad debt risk. Like essentially nobody could repay because the values dropped too hard. Well

12:06

Regardless, Avi has been kind of in the spotlight here this whole month. Yeah, but I also think like the correction there is  that the  So that bad debt is because it fell and then that’s 6.6 billion TLV TVL is  the excess is that’s all the liquidity that was leaving that caused the bad debt.  Oh Okay. Well, that’s a great better way to break it down than I just did so I appreciate for doing that Yeah, because it’s essentially how they calculated is

12:36

which loans are underwater. So essentially if you bought a car and you drove it off a lot, your $50,000 truck turns into a $30,000 value, but you have a $50,000 loan, you have bad debt on that, because the assets don’t cover it. Same thing that’s happening here, you’re underwater on your loan. So it’s not directly stolen, but it comes broken as collateral used in the lending. The number, and this is just what I’m reading, the number still is unclear.

13:03

But it’s serious enough that the lending market’s frozen and then the billions in liquidity exit, which essentially is a bank run. Like this is what happened here was a bank run. Yeah, I’m glad you pulled that up. Let me. Here’s what I’m reading. So this is from Degen News. This happened April 19th. So actually today, just a few hours ago.

13:26

new Aave TVL drops over 6 billion following the bad debt trigger by 290 million RS ETH exploit on the kelp dial. This is all Solana, which is… I didn’t realize how integrated these protocols were with each other.

13:42

These are all just DeFi protocols lending your money. You can wrap your token. It can be stable coins. You wrap it on whatever token is native to the network and then you can just accrue interest or yield on it. That’s generally what these protocols do. man, over six billion dollars following that debt trigger. That’s an insane amount of money. Yeah, because essentially what they stole was the restate token, which was worth about 300 million dollars. So that was stolen.

14:10

Six billion exited um on the flow. That’s what triggered the VAT debt because essentially you had a currency like fall. You see what kind of happened, right?  I see it now. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for clarifying that. Honestly,  even as I was going through this, it was still kind of unclear, but no, it makes perfect sense. It makes perfect sense.

14:36

It’s essentially what happens in like foreign countries like in Argentina where the currency Inflation skyrockets the currency drops and then all the debt, know The debt becomes bad that then you know, then the currency is worthless. That’s essentially what was happening inside of a god of a V I always want to call it a god. But Yeah, this is scary like

15:04

people you know we’ve talked to  a few people trying to onboard on mint lock in the last month and

15:12

They have asked some good questions and they’re very tough questions like, you know, how can you protect our money?  One thing I like to tell people is, mean, first of all, we’re not using third party protocols anytime soon.  We need to be more rigorous as to  what kind of protocols we’re going to park your money on to accrue yield or anything like that. So, you know, if we’re to build something, it’s got to make sure, you know, not only we rely on audits, but we also create some sort of foundation where we can mitigate as much social engineering hacks or breaches as possible.

15:42

So, you know,  at midlock, we’re not going to go into details, right? But like, you know, the architecture that we’ve been building is pretty isolated.  create zero day issues as much as we try to reduce them as much as possible. But  I mean, we can talk a little bit about how cloud mythos is going to change that  possibly. Yeah.  I also like  I think the big thing too is like

16:10

DeFi is high risk. There was, and let me pull this up. There was this dude on Twitter that was talking about it. And I think he has to some degree a good take on here is DeFi rates are just too low for the level of risk. There’s 12 billion sitting in morpho vaults, two to 4 % APY. Essentially these lending are working as how banks used to work or how banks do work.

16:40

So instead of you giving your money to Citi and they go and do all the lending and everything and they have rules and regulations, so I’m like how much cash on hand they have to have, whether the mortgages that are backed and all of that, they’re essentially offloading this to these lending platforms and all of them are out there at risk. It’s all third party lending. You don’t know.

17:06

what’s collateralized, this is what led to 2008 where mortgage bonds weren’t really as safe as everybody thought they were. They fell apart, know, it’s what’s caused other, you know, shocks in the world where, you know, they were lending out against oil or gold or other, other just, you know, assets. And I think this is one risk out there and that’s one risk. I think we’re trying to figure out how to vet these platforms outside of just…

17:34

security audits, like all of them have  had security audits. All of them have been pretty, you know, pretty safe out there, but  it’s all comes down to platform  and also like chain risk. Like there’s no stopping um the fact that these are risky, they are lending, you know, there’s just so many little things that could happen.  And I think we’re looking at how do we

18:02

make sure we pick the safest one that has the most liquidity that  could survive these hits. I highly regulated ones, like we’ve talked about how uh believe how Morpho’s used with Coinbase, how like most, I think most retail investors on Coinbase don’t realize the risk that they’re putting their money up when they’re lending for an extra one, 2 % basis points  out there.

18:29

But it is interesting to kind of see  all of that because that is a lot of money to get stolen. Like it’s a ton of money to be stolen. And what sucks is, you know, this was like an FDIC backed entity like a bank. I mean, the taxpayer pays it. But I mean, at least people keep their money. But in crypto is even harder for that because we don’t have that. There’s no insurance. And even if there were, it would be expensive because this happens all the time. So.

18:57

DeFi is at a point right now and there’s more attacks we could cover but just for brevity here. um DeFi will probably not be very appetizing for people unless  it incentivizes them. Like I’m thinking better  rates, better yields,  better incentives overall.

19:17

There’s a lot of risk, the UI UX is very clunky as well with DeFi and it’s gone better over the last few years, but it’s still like, especially with KYC, like if we’re doing crypto on ramp, like you’ve got to  verify that in there, you’re buying $10 of crypto, which is not very  appetizing.  It’s very high churn on ramps actually. um But the point I’m trying to make here is,

19:38

If we want to make DeFi better, there’s got to be better incentives and better UI UX, better experience overall, and just reward people for partaking in the future of the economy because I really believe agents and people are just going to be using crypto, uh not necessarily the way we’re using it now, but like in a more streamlined capacity in the next maybe two or  the next decade or two.  we got to get there.  If we’ve got to get there, we got to incentivize people.

20:07

It’s fair. It’s fair to want one especially for the risk right now I would say like these rates should be 20 20 20 30 percent You know to take on that sort of risk if if you think about it at large volumes Do you think it’s sustainable though that high of a yield or? It might not be sustainable, but that’s how much risk you’re taking on like I’m not gonna park you know $50,000 into

20:35

any of these platforms for two to 8%. Like you could put them in  other safer like T bills and,  and you know, the U S stock market and probably have a much safer return than just, you know, getting that money  and having it semi liquid. Like I don’t,  I love DeFi and I think this is all great, but I just, I think that there is a, a risk curve that has kind of passed a, Hey, this is super risky and

21:05

You know, what is the big part is most retail investors cannot afford to lose money. Yep. mean, we’ll see what happens. But next thing I want to talk about is cloud mythos. You know, we’ve talked a lot about cybersecurity attacks. I think a lot of this, it’s not necessarily code exploits. I mean, the code is robust because you got to get a security audit. You need to actually have a pretty good setup. You got to follow a lot of compliance with that.

21:34

It’s very hard to say the least to get a compliance, but, but cloud mythos might change that for everyone. You know, in San Antonio, we’ve known some people who are in the cybersecurity realm  there and especially in San Antonio and UTSA is among one of the biggest cities with the largest cybersecurity education there. um But cloud mythos seems to be putting even them  at a state of uncertainty.

22:02

They don’t know what’s gonna happen. They can only guess just like how we all can about the future. But yeah, all that to say, think Claude Mythos is something we should talk about next.  I have a few ideas how this could impact the future of DeFi, but let’s see. What do you know about Claude Mythos? Would be my question, just to kind of gauge. So  yeah, like I’ve seen all of this and I kind of, I think humans.

22:30

constantly go to the most extreme. And I think the hype around AI has always been  what,  like, I think it’s a marketing tactic. Like everyone says  that  every single model is the greatest model. It’s got AIG, it’s got  ability to change and kill jobs. I think Anthropics leader is constantly saying there’s going to be no lawyers, there’s going to be none of that. And I think we see the exact opposite. And I know Mythos is supposed to be one of their

23:00

their strongest and most m advanced like  models so far.  And it’s got like over 500 exploitable like zero day uh vulnerabilities and they’re working with large companies out there. And I would say the one thing about Mythos, um if you look on the website for Mythos, um everything is about like large scale companies, Microsoft like.

23:28

All of those, there’s no,  yeah, there’s no uh companies that are crypto related. Like I’m looking at it right now and I can share the screen. That would be great. I didn’t even know the 40 companies off the top of my head. I just know Google, Microsoft, Apple. Those are the, maybe Apple, maybe not, but we’ll see. Yeah, like, you know, I’m seeing in there Cisco, CrowdStrike, no surprise, CrowdStrike.

23:56

JP Morgan, Linux, Microsoft, Palo Alto Networks, all that, but  there’s not a single crypto company mentioned. Like there’s very few,  like.

24:09

Companies that I do think that are possibly even more critical in the financial space, if Circle is gonna be going out there, Coinbase is out there, all of them. So this is why I really, I’m much more of the mind that this is just really good marketing. Every single time you can do it, if you can get everyone to believe you’re the best model and you’re gonna change society.

24:39

It’s out there. We’re seeing, you know, Claude design essentially kill Figma and Claude or Figma and  Adobe. So  I’m just, I think this is way more hype, but the interesting part is that  again, the crypto space has been left out in this and I think it’s some of the most critical infrastructure that’s being built out there. if our infrastructure is going to be

25:07

based on a blockchain, we need to make sure that that’s one of the most secure items out there. Especially how vulnerable it is right now. I mean, it’s prone mostly to social engineering, which the only challenge I have for Anthropic is if you guys can solve social engineering, we certainly don’t need any other cybersecurity firm out there because that’s always the number one reason. mean, look at, I mean,

25:34

The only one that I can think of on the top of my head is the I love you letter from like the internet in the 2000s where you would get an email from a coworker or something and you would open it and spread malware. You know, that’s the root of it is social engineering. So that may never be solved, but you know, that’s my only challenge. But with that said, this is how you were mentioning marketing on the side of mythos. I’ve been on the internet.

26:02

a lot and this the meme that I’m seeing. This is how Anthropic is portraying ah mythos to us. Kind of like this unchained or chained being that when released in the wild it’s just gonna  wreck havoc  which

26:17

Man,  I didn’t look at the entire list of Glasswing until now and I was very surprised not even Coinbase was there. People, I was talking to my father-in-law the other day  and we were talking about Cloud Mythos and I said, know,  bet Coinbase is one of them because him and I, you know, talk about crypto on a cadence or sparingly, but…

26:40

I always thought CoinBiz was there because shit, crypto is highly vulnerable and I’m surprised these people don’t even consider them. I strongly think Nvidia and Anthropic now don’t like crypto. mean, Nvidia, the, what is it, 2021, when you could mine Ethereum based on the graphics card.

27:06

They’ve only been supporting companies with their products that are non crypto. Like if you’re building something on crypto, you don’t qualify for any of their programs, any of their incentives, any of their giveaways, you name it. If you’re building  a company in crypto, where it’s an AI, they’ll give you everything. And Anthropic, know, well, I’m kind of surprised, truth be told. But  I’m really not surprised though, because

27:32

you know, crypto is a second class citizen in every way. Like even as governments adopted, it is a disruption to the financial system. It is going to change how, how, you know, it works and everything. I just, many crypto firms are still fragmented. There’s less trust and systemic risk discussions. Like the fact that, you know, these run on the banks can happen, like all of that. I do think that there’s a

28:01

a very big marketing problem for DeFi and crypto as a whole. Like when somebody says crypto now, they think USDC and that is crypto. It’s just, it’s not  what you’re thinking of.  really like bridges should be considered critical infrastructure.  DeFi should be like high value risk out there. And the project does include financial infrastructure players, but they’re saying like, none of this is really out there.

28:30

No crypto company are part of the core group so far.

28:36

not even well Binance is not even US located and AI is pretty biased towards American companies so it makes sense but still I mean coin business is probably the biggest one it’s in the S &P 500 after all so

28:50

I’m kind of shocked to say the least, but…

28:56

What do you think we’re headed in the future of DeFi with Cloud Mythos rolling out outside of the 40 companies? I don’t really think Mythos is going to be that groundbreaking. think it’s going to improve and everything, but I think there is a lot of hype around it. I think there’s going to be some more hacks and some more stuff that happens, but crypto is still like a

29:24

Wild Wild West, it’s like the internet in 2000. It’s just not there yet and it hasn’t really consolidated. really got a lot of friction, like wallets and contracts, things that don’t work. There’s so many parts to it that are hard to use that when Mythos does come out, I think it’s gonna expose some more stuff and it’s gonna really kind of decimate

29:55

these platforms that just are not investing in security and compliance and  building good code, even if they do have security audits.  I’m seeing it everywhere. Security audits don’t mean anything anymore. It  just doesn’t mean anything. If somebody tells me they’ve got a security audit, I just don’t really trust it  in most ways.  It’s kind of like saying, I have a lock on my door. And I’m like, okay, that’s cool.  What else are you doing to make sure?

30:25

They don’t get in. You have a gun, an AK or something. Exactly. know, cameras, know, safe rooms, all that stuff. In DeFi, think that’s going to go beyond code audits. I think it’s going to be based on the way they architect their infrastructure, which a lot of it could be public knowledge. They don’t have to maybe tell us how they designed their database or anything, but you know,

30:54

Kind of like from a high level, just how Apple shows how they designed their M1 chips. Like, hey, it’s a ARM processor, blah, blah, blah. But for us, think, or for DeFi, think it’s, hey, you know, this is what we are doing to prevent social engineering. This is how we isolate our systems internally. This is how we hire. Like, this is the diligence that we do.

31:15

And beyond that, has to  really, this is something that I think if you’re a builder, if you’re a company watching this and you’re in crypto, I think this is something you should consider. Be very diligent who you work with. Be very diligent. Do your homework as to  how you’re going to run your company. We’re doing that right now. We’re pretty young company at MintLock, but you know, this is the direction I want crypto to take. And with Mythos, I really don’t think it’s going to replace

31:40

cybersecurity firms, don’t think Cisco is going to lose its job. think, like you said, Leon, it’s very overhyped. However, if it’s really good at finding security vulnerabilities that zero day vulnerabilities that never been found before, that is something to pay attention to. And I think DeFi could benefit a lot from it. However, as we near the end of this episode, let’s, let’s take, let’s have some takeaways about what we talked today.

32:07

April 2026 was the worst DeFi month in years.  And here’s what we learned. The attacker’s surface has moved. Smart contracts aren’t a weak point anymore. Keys, bridges, domains,  and humans are. know, a lot of social engineering is the vulnerability here. Composability is both DeFi’s feature and its biggest vulnerability.  One wide list of token can take down $6 billion.  I mean, that’s what happened, you know, in this,  what the things that we covered today. um

32:38

Also, attackers are already AI augmented, not just the people creating these systems or  implementing security features. Defenders,  still a lot of them haven’t fully caught up in my opinion because there’s a motive to it. I think attackers have a lot of motive to be on top of these tools because they want to get a lot of money. Defenders, people who run these companies, they’re probably just there to collect a paycheck and they don’t care anymore.

33:04

The gap closes one way or another here, which you know, got to hire people who care about what they do about their craft. And I think when people are doing a nine to five, they’re just there to collect a paycheck for the most part. Anthropic has the tool here also, you know, with cloud mythos, there is no DeFi protocol or let alone any crypto company there. So in my opinion, that’s a culture problem. Like you said, Leon, not a tech problem. So crypto just.

33:33

It’s always been portrayed as it’s kind of boogeyman, even like  when they’re around.  But  people need to start accepting like this is the way FinTech is moving.  here’s the thing. ah I know someone in San Antonio and San Antonio is a pretty big startup  ecosystem, probably bigger than Dallas, if I’m being honest.  And the one thing I’m seeing there is people who are building on AI or who are very AI savvy.

34:03

they really believe in crypto because unlike US dollars, highly regulated, you can actually do a lot more with crypto with AI.  And there’s a lot of these tools that are being built for AIs to use crypto.  what about like ramp? Like I’m seeing a lot of like, yeah, like I’m seeing a lot of like TradFi take on  over over that like ramp.

34:28

is like the go-to for agents right now, which is super interesting. And then like other ones are using it. Honestly.

34:40

If I think what you’re talking about, you’re talking about like the cars you can dispatch to these agents and they can make commercial purchases, correct? Yeah. Commercial purchases are great, I think, but that’s as far as you can do with ramp. Because of that, it’s pretty constrained to it. Like you can check out on Shopify, which is the biggest place you can buy things online.

35:04

You can’t program yield, can’t program  distribution  or economies like you can with crypto. for that reason alone, just think we haven’t found its  crypto has yet to find its iPhone moment. People have been saying that for a long time. And I think with agents, we still have a way to go there. So I’m bullish for the future. I’m very hopeful. I’m very optimistic, especially in the way AI is moving. But

35:31

We just haven’t had a breakthrough yet. And maybe until that happens, people who have been the the one saying like crypto is bad will maybe change their minds. People change their minds all the time. Yeah, I think it’s I think it’s a big marketing push that has to happen and security has to come to the forefront. And right now, that’s the problem. Absolutely. But we’ll see what happens. But yeah, this has been Social Edge Report. Thanks for watching.