Episode 32: The Future of “Vibe Coding” & Onchain Gaming with Ryan Beltran

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Hey, welcome back to the channel. This is Jr., founder and CEO of Midlock

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and my name is Le Hitchens. I’m the chief marketing officer here at Mitlock.

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Yeah. And this is Social Ledger Report where we haven’t been on for quite a bit

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of time, but we’re back in 2026. Yeah. And we want to kick off 2026 by

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introducing a developer on Web 3 on the Arbitrum network. His name is Ryan

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Beltran and he’s here to teach us a little bit more about his company and

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his product chain craft and kind of just you know man like thanks so much for

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having us here. Really just want to know a little bit more about you. I want to

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share the audience with you kind of what tell us what you do that sort of stuff.

0:43

Sure. Thanks for having me. Yeah man. So, I guess I’ll kick it off

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by saying, you know, um I’m I’m not sure if you’ve seen Social Ledger Report

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before, but we um I I know we were talking about a little bit about it

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before, but we like to go over the news things and trends and market movements

1:01

happening and how it affects and impacts the crypto markets. So yeah, for now um

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kind of just want to talk to you more and and put the spotlight on you with no

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pressure. But you know, I guess

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at no pressure. Yeah.

1:17

As a no pressure. Not at all. No, never.

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So I guess the first question that I want to kick off today is

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can you tell us a little bit more about who you are? Your name is Ryan Beltr,

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but but what does it mean to be Ryan Beltran? I hope I’m pronouncing it

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right. Sure.

1:35

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it’s Ryan Beltran, but it’s, you know, like, uh, however, um,

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uh, yeah. So, I mean, I guess a bit about me, uh, is I actually,

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uh, work on two things right now. One of the things that I have worked on for a

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while is a nonprofit, Makewwater.org. Um,

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which isn’t really Web 3. We’ve got donations from Web 3. We’ve actually

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done some projects um with the Nouns Dow uh with some of our kids. Uh we’re

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educational nonprofit that um challenges students to be citizen scientists and

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I’ve always liked like tech, new tech, emerging tech. Um and that’s how I got

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into that. And I’ve also always been a gamer. And uh I actually started uh

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getting into web 3 or crypto years ago and

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and uh through that I I don’t know where you want me how far you want me to go

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into that but uh after getting into crypto and web 3 and the recent AI boom

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I I’ve always wanted to build something in the space and it wasn’t until like

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maybe a year and a half ago or a couple years ago when this sort of idea with

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some friends uh chain craft came up and I can get more into that. Yeah.

2:56

Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, I don’t know if we’ve told this to the audience

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before, but I think it’ll be a good reminder since this is the first episode

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of 2026, but um, if you’re comfortable, why don’t you tell us what got you in

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two two things, two parts of that question. So, first, what exactly got

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you to crypto? And also, how long have you been into the crypto space? For

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reference, I got into crypto in about 2018. I learned about Bitcoin for the

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first time. Well, for the first time, I learned it in 2013 when I was in high

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school, but I didn’t really get into it as much until 2018. I got into it with

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CryptoKitties. Um, I had some Ethereum at the time.

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It’s a throwback right there. CryptoKitties.

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Exactly. Yeah, it really is. And I was very

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casual about it back then, but you know, that’s more or less my lore. Um, do you

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want to share yours real quick, Leon, and then we give you back the spotlight,

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Ryan? Sure, I want to hear.

3:52

Yeah, totally. Um, you know, I think mine was

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the the classic thing that I remember is sitting in a calculus class in high

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school be like Bitcoin’s the future and going home trying to mine it, trying to

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figure out what the heck it it is on some crappy, you know,

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gateway pu uh PC back in 2012,

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2013 time. So I I was there. I never quite got into the

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development side like you Ryan or understand as much as on the like the

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DeFi. I’m learning a lot more on that side, but it was always like Bitcoin was

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a thing. I bought some CryptoKitties and then anything with a little bit of

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gambling uh piques my interest just like every other crypto nerd out there.

4:38

Um yeah, Ryan. So yeah, I’ll uh y’all have uh have been in

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it for years. I’ve always, you know, heard about it and always wondered like

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why I didn’t get into it earlier because I I always loved like emerging tech, new

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tech. Um, I’m also like a filmmaker. So, I was really really into film making

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like I think during these times like I I went to New York and I worked for

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Wow. uh as a production assistant for

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Michelle Gandry, one of like my favorite directors. He did like Eternal Sunshine

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and Spotless Mind and bunch of awesome music videos. Um, so I think I was in my

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like pure filmmaker arc during all that and I remember hearing about it and I

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the only thing that I remember was like isn’t that like PayPal? Doesn’t PayPal

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already do that? And I didn’t get it. So I was just like

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uh it didn’t click. Um, but many years later, like 2020,

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um, I heard about the Sandbox and like, uh,

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Sandbox with their like land, virtual land, and then I just

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started like it’s all kind of blurry, but I know that’s where I started

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because it like had this crossover of gaming and blockchain.

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I think I’d bought a tiny bit of Bitcoin or Ethereum like before that or got on

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an airdrop but didn’t claim it for Stellar and because I didn’t know what

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it was. I didn’t even know what an airdrop was or whatever. Um, so but I

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know that that sandbox was the first thing and it had to do with gaming and

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and I just went down the rabbit hole and it

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was like it took a while but then it really like

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restructured your way of thinking because it’s still like you learn and

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you learn and you just like smart contracts like how does this sort of

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type of money work? But really, it was these like parcels of land on Sandbox

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that I bought and then I saw that you could sell them for a lot more right

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away. And I was like, “Oh, okay. That’s gaming I like.” And I also like making

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money. So, I I did both those things. And it really just from then on I just

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would always go on YouTube, listen to people, and

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then I learned about crypto Twitter. And honestly, crypto Twitter’s been the uh

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the greatest educator for the past few years. It definitely is like watching

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reality TV, too. It’s like it’s so entertaining like all the crazy drama

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that goes on in it. But, uh, are you ever on like Farcaster

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or Bass? You know, the the any of those I I got on Farcaster. I think I’m like

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in the first 3000 or something.

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I’m jealous, man. Um, and I didn’t

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like I I I would check up on it, but I kept going back to Twitter. Like it like

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the algorithm like I just couldn’t like set up my homepage to really So it

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almost felt like when I was there I was doing more work to try to find like

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things I did want to talk about or hear about. Um, so I never quite got in the

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groove with it. I like it a lot, but I didn’t. Um, and and Bass, I think,

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you know, just feels like a spin-off of Farcaster and and I didn’t do too much

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base uh app yet. Yeah,

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I don’t blame you. Um, we’ve used Bass. I was using Coinbase wallet casually for

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a while and then when they announced the rebranding into Bass in July of 2025, I

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got super FOMO and I was already like trying to get in. Leon got into it

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before I did. I was Yeah. And I was a little jealous, but

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eventually I got my access and then yeah, I use it on I use it every week. I

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don’t post on it, but I’m starting to just because I want to grow our brand

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Mintlock and then Social Leger Report. So, um, quick question about that.

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Do you feel like when you’re promoting your business and we’ll get more into

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Chain Craft of course and whatever else you want to talk about like Mick Water,

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but uh, quick question. So when you promote I I saw your following on

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Twitter and I think you were like just shy of 500 followers I believe

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which it’s substantial. We relaunched our business into Midlock. So we have

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like maybe three to five followers I believe. So

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it starts somewhere. You got to start anywhere, you know.

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Yeah. So thanks. But what would you advise our audience but also us as far

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as growing a following? Would you rather use crypto Twitter or like forecaster or

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like just anything else aside from crypto Twitter?

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Yeah, I mean I I will say I mostly secondhand have like heard a lot of like

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how people have grown in the space. I’ve not actively tried to

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grow my my own Twitter and the Twitter for Chaincraft. I’ve been very slow with

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it just because it’s very tricky if I launch something too soon and it’s not

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ready to scale or like the tricky thing in the space that I’ve seen is apps

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launch too soon and not be able like like if they catch like that virality or

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get get viral all of a sudden and they don’t know how to deal with it, they can

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like like grow boom and bust real fast. So that’s one of the fears that I have.

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I mean, it’d be a good fear to have in a way, like a good thing to happen,

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but uh I also um so so that’s where I’ve been with Chaincraft. If I had advice,

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um I do think Bass and Farcaster are good at getting other people who

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obviously are in the crypto space. Um so there’s nothing wrong with that and I I

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think it’d be a a positive thing to do that. It’s also like a re weird time

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right now, too. It’s like definitely 826 low. Yeah, it’s definitely low vibes. Uh

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kind of bearish feeling. Um but I like working in that that time. Like I feel

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like you can stand out better. Uh when gotcha

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people have shaken up and have left that are like, “Oh, I’m not going to make

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money right now. I’ll come back later.” And there’s just some of the like people

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left over. Um, so the ones that are committed to to the

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actual communities and stuff, I think that’s uh

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when when there’s a boom, everybody comes in and, you know, they want to be

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involved. And I see that a lot on crypto Twitter. The the folks that have been

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through the ups and the downs when and when Bitcoin went to like 60 and then

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went back down to 20, whoever stayed around was like, “Okay, here’s some OGs

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that actually care about it.” And I think there’s an interesting thing

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happening this year around that like low is cryp cryptos being the most adopted

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thing. Stable coins are getting their build. Like there’s inflows of ETFs and

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there’s just so much going. But the number just kind of keeps going down.

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And I think that’s what always kept crypto Twitter and crypto alive with so

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much hype is that your exact thing I could buy low sell

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high. there there was a Wall Street bets kind of component to this is a great

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wealth distribution and and I think as it stabilizes it’s kind of like longer

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term thinking infrastructure and and all of that so there is a an oddity of who

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sticks around like I’m seeing a lot of the posts like I’m out or we’re no

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longer doing that we’re a trading platform just like caster and it’s like

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is that the right answer who knows and I still it just feels like early.com days

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like in a lot of ways when IRC chats were around and you know phones weren’t

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really like you know smartphones yet like

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so yeah I

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I definitely definitely agree with that um I mean it’s like the best marketing

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is number go up as they say like your token goes crazy that’s the best

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marketing in this in this space um

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y’all would know he’s that’s his background

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Yeah, it’s just his number go up is is the best marketing for it is somebody

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going on CNBC and saying Bitcoin’s going to hit a million dollars. Like the past

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number was it’s going to hit 100,000, but now it it’s there. And I think it to

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normal folks out there, the the hard part is what does crypto actually do?

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like I had a hard time wrapping my head around that and really JR was the one

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who kind of helped me understand DeFi more. I was very skeptical and I think I

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said on one of the podcasts I was like why stable coins and then I kind of to

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your point I was like well we already have like remittance and we already have

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systems but as I learned like oh man the banks still use FTP or or SFTP to

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transfer you know money in some ways I was like that it’s really interesting

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and I think you know kind of pivoting a little bit in a smooth way is I think

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gaming is kind of like that right now it’s like how does crypto fit into that

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Like we’ve had um uh games that have in-game currency, but those in-game

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currencies have never been realistic and and there’s a lot of crypto

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games, but I don’t feel like they’ve quite cracked the nut. So may maybe you

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want to, you know, kind of give your elevator pitch on Chain Craft and then

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we can kind of talk about what you’re doing in that space.

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Yeah. Um you mentioned you were you mentioned you were inspired

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by the sandbox. I actually did try the sandbox briefly. I think it was like a

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very ebit

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type of formula, but you know, I’ve been following you for a few years now, but

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you know, please let us know like what is chain craft if you could give us an

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elevator pitch and maybe also a less technical explanation of that for

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our viewers who are not very technical. Yeah. And I also want to go back a

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little bit to just gaming and crypto. I feel like they are so made for each

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other, but it’s just had a rocky road. And the

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there’s many reasons for it. And one of the biggest reasons is like NFTTS came

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out, there was a boom and bust, there was a lack of education and

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understanding of the working of blockchain and a lot of scams uh

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rampant. So that said, it really was was and and still is divisive in the gamer

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community. Um, but it’s really wild because there’s so many crypto people

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that are gamers. Like they’re they’re just like a lot of them are gamers, but

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there’s not a lot of gamers that like crypto. Um,

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it’s a good point. But the thing the thing that got me in

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again was was Sandbox. It got me in it. I didn’t really stay with Sandbox, you

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know, it didn’t I didn’t like it over time, but it did get me in and

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interested about like, oh, I can own a part of a game. Like, you have Roblox,

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you have Fortnite, you have all these places that you can create things and

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maybe earn something, but it’s a walled garden. They take hefty fees from from

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people that or from creators. And I always thought like things that were

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like maybe more decentralized or more like the creator and the player had more

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um ability to own things in game just was so powerful. Like

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I played World of Warcraft and old MMOs and

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you would Yeah. You couldn’t sell your gold like

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you had gold, you couldn’t sell it or buy it or you weren’t supposed to. You

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could get banned. Um

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Yeah. People would actually realize their swords. Oh my gosh. That would

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take me the [ __ ] back, man. And I remember eBay was like the place

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to sell that. Yeah. And but that’s like against the

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terms of service and stuff. And even even like Ethereum has that whole like

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Vitalik started Ethereum uh because uh uh one of his items was nerfed in WoW

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and and he wanted more decentralization. Like go look that story up if you if you

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haven’t heard it. So anyway, I think there’s so many roots

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in gaming and crossover. Uh, but it’s just that the timing hasn’t been right

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due to, like I said, the NFT and scams. But then also, it takes a long time to

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make a good game. A lot of games have just tried to take old models and slap

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on like web 3 on it or like crypto and it’s just like a shortcut that I don’t

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think works or hasn’t worked that well. So, in my opinion, it’s just it’s still

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it’s in its infancy and just like people are trying to to to put shapes and

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different like seeing what fits in what hole and like it hasn’t quite caught yet

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and that’s always been in the back of my head like just checking out on games and

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wanting to like something to hit or something to just feel right and and I

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haven’t found that yet. Um,

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okay. And that said, AI comes around and I’ll just get into chain crap now. Like

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uh AI comes around and just this whole like ability to easily

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uh easily create um and obviously you hear about vibe coding. Uh you hear

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about like there’s there’s a lot of already existing um like app builders

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out there and what we thought kind of like frameworks as the case.

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There’s a few there’s there’s many out there and and uh what kind of

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differentiates us and and the the route that we are taking is even if you build

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an app like a lot of these like you prompt it I want to make rock paper

18:18

scissor and it makes you one but it looks horrible. It’s hard to go back and

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adjust anything within this interface like to tweak it. Um and it’s pretty

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wonky. So and and it’s not like multiplayer.

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Um there’s a lot of levels that we thought if we build like from the ground

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up uh with this this sort of like web 2.5 mindset like uh for instance uh

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creating a profile is super easy. You can be a guest uh or you can sign up and

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no matter what we use uh third web which makes it super easy um to come in create

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a profile and you don’t even know if you have a wallet or not. like we’re trying

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to make this for anybody to be able to use

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uh cryptonative or not with this idea of whatever you create you can own you can

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earn from it and there’s this like cross collaboration ecosystem where games that

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you make and maybe items in your game can be used across the ecosystem. So

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we’re sort of instead of just making a one-off app builder where you make a

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game and you try to pitch it or take it somewhere else. It’s like you can do

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that, but what if you keep it in here and you keep it in this ecosystem where

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there’s a lot more like uh remixing cross collaboration potential and cross

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like taking your items and moving it between different games. That’s sort of

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like hits on like my early dreams of like what I think it means to have like

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gaming on the blockchain. Cool, man. Yeah, thanks for explaining

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that. I’m going to share uh your website, Chaincraft, and I’ll I’ll let

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you take it off, Leon. Yeah. So, one one interesting thing I

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was going to call out there, and I’m I’m hearing it a lot more. I really love

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that uh animation. Um Yeah, it’s really cool.

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Uh is really around the on-ramping, off-ramping, and not

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making it feel like crypto. I think everyone is talking about that from DeFi

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to like these these games and and you know trading and just any platform that

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that uses even all the way down to poly market where

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the on-ramping and onramping being so complicated. you got to go buy crypto

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and send it to a wallet and you got to know you have a wallet and which chain

20:34

are you on or what are you doing is I think the hard part and I think when you

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make it as simple as possible the end user which are we’re all goldfish in

20:44

some capacity we inevitably just go oh I can deposit $50 via Apple cash or

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whatever it is and I’m able to play a game and have fun and maybe make more

20:57

money but also um you just enjoy it. Like people, you know, spend hundreds of

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dollars every year on skins that don’t really benefit them in any way.

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They can’t sell it back. Um I actually want to share if you give me a moment, I

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could share my screen. And this is the actual app

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that is still like just like we just started to roll it out by invite only.

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It’s it is public. So if anybody’s watching this,

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you can go to play.chaincraft.game games. And this is our early sort of

21:28

beta. Um, let me open this up. Yeah. Bio beats.

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And so right here, you can instantly uh try making a game. I will say it’s a

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little finicky right now. Like uh what we’ve been working on up to this point

21:46

is the foundation of of our platform, which is the things that we have done so

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far are it’s multiplayer. It’s a web app that works from uh from your phone or a

21:58

desktop. Um there is the ability when you create a game that it mints as an

22:04

NFT and you own it. So uh like I mentioned you when you have a profile

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um when you have a profile or like when you sign up you it creates a wallet for

22:17

you whether you really even know it or not. It feels very web 2. Um, and this

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shows you what games that I’ve made uh that I’ve published. I made one, Dance

22:27

Simulator. I like making just really cheesy uh cheesy games just for fun um

22:33

to see what the extent of our engine can currently do. I will say right now it’s

22:37

just text based on purpose because it allows us to really like debug things,

22:42

focus on streamlining like how making a game uh works and what mechanics we can

22:47

start to add. And then we can start walking into uh graphics, but doing it

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in a way that um that is thoughtful where you don’t just like have a really

22:57

crap looking uh uh interface, but something that maybe it’s an interface

23:01

that another artist has created and you’re you’re uh they’re earning

23:05

royalties from maybe you using their their interface. Um so here’s like uh

23:11

unpublished games that I’ve tried out. Uh, if I were when you make a game,

23:17

um, let’s see. This one’s called cutest in show. Uh, where you try to just make

23:23

the cutest game or the cutest animal and then the judge will will determine which

23:29

one is the cutest. And this is all kind of silly right now and just for fun. Um,

23:34

but we want to get to this point where um, like our first revenue stream is

23:40

definitely Denny for the crypto audience, which is we want players to

23:45

come in and be able to create a game and then use it on what’s called token

23:49

duels, where you can wager uh, a crypto uh, in playing like skill-based games

23:56

against somebody else. So, one of the first ones is superhero showdown. Um,

24:00

where I just come up with like a superhero and you do and then the AI

24:04

battles them and one person wins like a really quick one round uh sort of game.

24:10

And so, is this like Lovable but for making

24:14

onchain games essentially in a way and yeah, Lovable is like

24:18

another app builder very big. But the thing that that I think we add here is

24:23

the web three component, the owning component, and then moving into we’re

24:28

going to be moving into like being able to create items in game that are NFTTS.

24:34

So like imagine I make a game where it’s like a dungeon crawler and

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you can get certain items uh like oh I found a sword that is now an NFT and

24:44

then that sword could be used in other games that other people create. Um, and

24:49

so that’s the route we’re taking is this like intermingling of of people’s games

24:53

and creating more of an ecosystem that people would like to build on and earn

24:58

from at the same time. Cool, man. Yeah, it sounds pretty fun.

25:02

And you said none of these are like technically playable yet. Like these are

25:06

No, they’re playable. Like anybody can come now

25:09

um and do Superhero Showdown. Uh, I can start a game.

25:14

Cool, man. And I can send an invite. Like you click here, click an invite

25:19

link and I can send it to anybody. Uh there’s a global chat here. Oh no, this

25:25

is a game chat. So each game also starts a game chat.

25:28

Um but there’s a global chat here where I can say, “Hey, come join my

25:32

game.” Or I can just text the the code to

25:35

somebody. It’s pretty cool.

25:36

Um and you mentioned friction, Leon. Uh I’m always thinking of friction for

25:42

people who don’t know crypto. uh like coming in you can play as a guest like

25:47

in two clicks you don’t have to like it still creates you a profile and creates

25:51

you a wallet but like you invited somebody they can in two clicks come and

25:55

play your game with you right now already. So it’s like the foundation is

25:59

what we’ve spent a lot of time on and now we’re starting to focus on okay

26:03

let’s get like what can we do uh to beef up textbased games but also start going

26:08

into more complex uh games graphics and things like that.

26:15

But man, it’s pretty cool. I actually just created a profile and I’ve been

26:18

over here messing with it. Um, I was doing the job interview simulator and

26:23

just being a troll to it. Oh, is that nice? So,

26:27

okay, that’s actually cool that you can actually create a game and then is there

26:30

like uh if if I can ask like is there a

26:34

pipeline between or like a general estimate between you have an idea, you

26:38

want to create a game and then getting to playing the game and inviting people

26:42

to play with? Like what’s the general timeline, I guess?

26:45

Yeah. Oh, that’s a hard one because the game builder is very finicky right now.

26:52

Like I know because I’ve made games like how to make something that it’ll

26:58

probably accept. Well, it it’s um I mean the engine is

27:03

it’s very AI based right now. Like a lot of it is like a lot of AI uh agents and

27:10

AI prompting and AI artifacts being created every time. But little by little

27:15

we are making it more deterministic to where um like right now it creates a

27:20

game it creates the artifacts and then once everything’s done the artifacts are

27:24

there then it doesn’t create a lot of requirement of AI after it’s made. So

27:28

all the ones that you see on our site are already like the artifacts are all

27:32

made. Uh but in the future it’s going to be more like codable like actual code

27:37

that is coming out and uh more deterministic and have more features and

27:42

things like that. Cool, man. So, that’s pretty cool. Um, I did want to ask you,

27:47

so you mentioned earlier, you know, not every there’s you

27:52

essentially have two audiences. One, people who use crypto and two, people

27:56

who use AI, and they’re not always the same users. So, I think long term you

28:00

want to on board people who are kind of in the same kind of in both realms. Um,

28:06

I did start off as a gamer in my life and then I became a a web 3 developer or

28:10

just a developer and then someone who was in web 3. But

28:15

what’s your expected what’s your approach as far as

28:20

onboarding people who are both web 3 users but also gamers like if that makes

28:26

sense. Yeah. So first our first approach is

28:30

definitely the web three existing like cryptonatives and gamers and I already

28:36

have like am in some groups that are already gamers. Um so this is built on

28:43

arbitum and it’s even built on another layer on top of arbitum and layer three

28:47

called Senko which is a fun group of people who just

28:50

they they’ve made some really interesting and innovative games. uh

28:54

Senko has and so we decided to launch on the on their chain. Um but it’s all in

29:01

the arbitum ecosystem. Um but our first priority is like uh is the web 3

29:07

audience because of just how how they get it like even though we’re making

29:12

this as friction low friction as possible that’s our first audience.

29:16

token DS kind of appeases that audience, but at the same time, I’m trickling in

29:21

and reaching out to non-natives just to get their feel of like the use of it.

29:26

Like does something stick out that just feels like they don’t understand or like

29:31

and honestly right now it just feels like they’re just playing with the game

29:33

builder, which is great. That’s our goal is like they don’t have to off the bat

29:37

know it’s blockchain. they can just know it’s in the background and once we get

29:41

to the point of like earning royalties um it could just be done very like

29:47

simply like we still have different ideas of how that route’s going to work

29:51

out but we want them to feel like oh I just want to send the money to my PayPal

29:55

or something like that um so we’re trying to figure out all the ways to do

29:59

that and actually I will give a shout out to third web again they have all

30:03

sorts of like methods for bridging onboarding uh or or creating wallet

30:09

through pro profile creation, social media login, things like that. And then

30:13

they have tons of templates on their website of just not having to reinvent

30:17

the wheel and code something from scratch. They already have like, oh, I

30:20

want a marketplace. I can put it in there. Um, they have like even their own

30:24

AI, um, uh, web 3 AI that can help you with smart contracts. Uh, it’d be really

30:30

cool, like I I have so many things on a wish list for like way down. Uh, it’d be

30:37

really cool to just have a game that is almost like a PvP game where you have

30:42

your wallet and you can lose the things in your wallet, but like in a in a

30:47

setting where that wallet or your your

30:51

wallet is maybe on a test net or something like that where it doesn’t

30:54

matter anyway. But like that’s a lot of fun because I I loved PvP games where

30:58

there’s high stakes involved where you could lose your your loot and and a lot

31:02

of games just don’t scratch that itch like it used to. Um, so there’s all

31:06

these innovative ways that I think we can take our platform that are just fun,

31:11

like fun, but they involve the blockchain. They involve this like

31:14

ownership um, and being able to buy and sell and earn. Uh, so I keep going back

31:18

to that. That’s sort of our thesis. I like that.

31:21

I love a Pv PvP game just to like steal people’s stuff, have my stuff

31:27

stolen, like put in a little bit of It’s almost like the gambling uh the DGEN

31:32

stuff. Like I think that’d be a little fun just to have

31:36

something of like, oh my gosh, he walked in the house like um Stardew Valley

31:40

style, you know, kind of game where where everybody gets to be on the same

31:45

server. That would be amazing. That was always the the move on Minecraft.

31:50

M yeah personally

31:51

I’m excited for that. I also got on Minecraft quite a bit. So

31:56

like public servers like PB P2B or B2BT or I forget that old

32:03

micro server but it’s kind of like what I thought of when you

32:06

mentioned PvP high stakes. So no but thanks for sharing that. Um so you

32:11

mentioned arbitum and personally I haven’t built on arbitrum. I was

32:15

building my first business was Websy. It was a social network on a layer one

32:21

called Decentralized Social or Dieso. That didn’t really take off. They had a

32:25

lot of issues with that network. And I’ve learned that Ethereum layer 2s are

32:30

actually a much better way to build on web 3 because they have more

32:35

recognition. They’re layer they’re Ethereum based. So there’s EVM. It’s a

32:40

lot easy to build and there’s already like a large, you know, a lot of people

32:45

and a lot of a lot of um forget the word the the there’s a lot of money on these

32:50

networks essentially. So, it makes it easier to distribute and everything.

32:54

So, um if you could just like tell us a little bit about what made you choose

32:58

Arbitum specifically to build on. Yeah, a few things. Um so, yeah, again

33:04

like it’s on the EVM chain or it’s on which means it’s on Ethereum. it’s built

33:09

on top of it and there’s a lot of L2s out there. Um, but it’s kind of great

33:14

first of all when it’s tied to Ethereum like there’s a lot of similarity. Your

33:19

wallet uh um goes across all of them like your same like wallet address. Um I

33:26

got into arbitrum because uh Senko I liked their of all the gaming stuff out

33:32

there. I liked Senko. I wouldn’t say that they have been the most successful,

33:36

but they’ve made the most innovative stuff. They made like they made a Twitch

33:41

uh web 3 Twitch thing uh where you could live stream and give uh uh like like

33:49

follow, give credits, give tips, things like that. They did that like first they

33:53

did a um they did a where you have Yeah.

33:58

Don’t want to interrupt you, but how how do you spell psycho? I want to look it

34:02

up and open it right now and kind of just go through it as you tell us.

34:05

SN ko and they have a ton of like um Okay,

34:10

they it’s it’s just a really fun uh fun platform like

34:17

let’s see arbitum portal correct is it this one?

34:20

Uh let’s see senko well this is arbitrum’s website.

34:26

Yeah, let me give you the the their like main it’s senko.xy XYZ.

34:32

Ah, nice. And

34:33

good old XYZ. They have a lot of different products.

34:35

They they they just kind of like threw a lot of spaghetti at the wall. And they

34:40

made a game called like Senko Pets where it’s like

34:43

I see it here. You and they have this like PlayStation

34:46

vibe. They have very like PS1 PS2 era graphics and stuff.

34:52

Um, this is cool.

34:54

So they have uh Senko Pets, which is a lot of fun. um where you own these pets

35:00

and you can trade them as NFTs. But what I’ve never seen before is each NFT

35:05

is a wallet also. So you can send items um and you can wear like gear and stuff.

35:14

So uh yeah, Senko Pets. So yeah, here it is.

35:18

They call them buns and those are little Senko buns. Uh so I love what they’re

35:23

doing. It’s very silly uh the items that they make and they’re about to make like

35:28

a a MMO with all this stuff. It’s kind of like a lot of their stuff also as an

35:33

ecosystem. This kind of reminds me of Farmville

35:36

from like 2009 Facebook days. It’s it’s kind of cool.

35:40

Yeah, they have a little farm where you could they have items. They have an AI

35:43

item generator where you can make your own items.

35:46

So they are built on arbitrum. They have their own layer three. Uh uh so it’s

35:51

just like Senko mainet. Um Okay. Wait. So layer three you said.

35:57

Yeah. So it’s like Ethereum and there’s like arbitum and then there’s like

36:02

arbitum allows for orbit chains which basically is like is like layers on top

36:08

of it. So got

36:09

um board apes made a chain on top of ARB. Um, I think Robin Hood is building

36:16

a orbit chain. If not, they’re just building on Arbitum in one way or

36:20

another. So, we can go on and on, but I will say

36:22

I like Arbitum a lot. I am not like a hater on other chains. I

36:27

just like and decided to build on Arbitum.

36:30

Um, because I think they just have longevity. They don’t really try to

36:35

overhype things. You really can tell from the team. They’re just like slow

36:39

and steady like building a a pretty amazing product. Um, I like bass a lot,

36:44

too. They’re very good at like marketing. They’re very good at like

36:48

quick iteration and quick new ideas and getting money out there. Um, so it’s

36:53

just different different vibes, but they’re interconnected. Like you can

36:57

bridge across pretty easily uh your your funds and things like that.

37:01

Um, so yeah, but I like I just like Arbitum and

37:05

uh they’ve been supportive too. They we won a grant uh through Questbook grant.

37:09

Oh, nice. Congrats. Um yeah. How much was it if I may ask?

37:14

Um it’s for 25,000 about or 24,500 and um and we are also going to do a

37:23

hackathon that we just applied to that they have going.

37:26

Uh they have a really huge uh gaming initiative. And actually

37:31

that’s another thing to add to this to kind of just like maybe

37:35

uh uh bookend it. But yeah,

37:37

every every blockchain would love to have that killer first game that brings

37:43

web 2. It’s almost like they’re publishers. They’re like, “We want you

37:47

to do it on our chain cuz they will get the fees of like transactions and the

37:52

liquidity will come to their chain and things like that.” So, there’s a lot of

37:55

incentive for uh you to make a great standout game um in blockchain. So if

38:02

people want to make like try it out, think about it because there’s there’s

38:05

money out there if you have good ideas and that’s what we’re trying to do, you

38:08

know. Yeah. I think um one thing I’ll say is

38:12

and I don’t know if you have any thoughts, Leon, but I think in crypto,

38:17

one thing I’ve learned is in the last almost 5 years that I’ve been building

38:21

on crypto is people just want to make money. People I mean money comes first

38:26

in many areas because it is the easiest way to integrate crypto. It’s just

38:30

money. But um would you say that you know you can kind of see a parallel with

38:36

like the gamification of web 3 with like prediction markets because right now

38:43

Koshi and Poly Market I feel it’s kind of like a like a gambling game. The

38:47

gamification part of it is you’re betting on something in the market and

38:52

then you put money and then you either win or you lose. It’s kind of like

38:55

gambling kind of like not gambling if that makes sense. So, do you see like

38:59

some sort of parallel is what I’m trying to ask

39:02

with uh with what we’re building or just like what in like

39:06

Oh, just in general like with prediction markets and like uh web 3 gaming in

39:10

particular. Yeah, I feel like it’s one of those

39:12

things that everybody’s trying to slap blockchain onto things and there’s some

39:17

things that are successful. Um, and definitely if there’s gambling involved,

39:22

it tends to be a good It’s not always my favorite thing, but it’s a good like it

39:28

just does well at it. Um, and prediction markets are very interesting. Uh, I I

39:33

really like I don’t really use it much. It’s not like I kind of tend to go and

39:38

use the products that I get excited about or think are innovative and

39:43

interesting to learn from. Um, so I I mean I heard about Poly Market very

39:47

early on. I didn’t use it much, but I did like

39:51

what it was doing. And I did like this whole like now it’s in the news because

39:55

it’s prediction like it’s a way to predict things by it’s very powerful

40:00

that if something is showing you in real time people are putting their money

40:04

where they their mouth is. It’s can be pretty accurate outcomes. Uh which is

40:08

pretty neat and and I was not expecting that. Then Kalshi is just like, you

40:13

know, I believe very similar but just uh um KYCed and and like has a little bit

40:18

more regulation, I think. Uh and has been able to really boom quickly. Um and

40:26

yeah, so I’ll just say that there’s a lot of of of people still trying out

40:29

there like attaching this to that and seeing what sticks. Um and some making

40:34

it big. Yeah. No, it makes sense. Did you have any

40:38

thoughts, Lean? No. Uh, I’ve been uh playing the job

40:42

simulator pretty hard right now. This is actually pretty fun. Like

40:45

I can stepping away. I’m stuck. I’m stuck over here. I didn’t get the job

40:49

and I tried to do it again and I didn’t get the job again. I was like, “Dang

40:52

it.” Dang.

40:53

Can you share like your game experience by the way?

40:56

Yeah, totally. So, I will I will say with the job simulator, my goal was

41:03

uh because it’s so finicky, like I have to when I get a working game,

41:07

I’m like I’m just going to publish it because I if I go back and try to change

41:12

too many nuances, uh it might break the game and I lost my

41:16

chance to to to launch it. Um, so my initial goal with this, I’ll just set a

41:21

premise to job simulator was like I wanted it to be

41:26

where you don’t know what you submitted on your resume

41:30

and the job interviewer would little by little say, “Oh, it says here you have

41:37

three years plucking chicken experience. How does that help with uh applying for

41:44

this uh HR position at a hedge fund or something like like and then you have to

41:50

like try to say oh my chicken plucking experience is the a so it’s almost like

41:55

an improv game and you have to just have fun with it

41:58

and it was pretty fun. Uh, you know, I went

42:00

really hardcore here of just like, you know, it’s asking me, you know, how are

42:05

you reliable and stuff? And I was like, oh, I’m always late. Also kind of suck

42:08

at juggling.

42:10

Just just to see what it would do. It’s kind of fun. Um, you know, just to be

42:14

the troll, but I thought that was pretty cool. Um, on the on the game creation,

42:19

so you have to buy a NFT or how how does that kind of work? I was

42:23

Yes, I’m glad you brought that up right now.

42:25

Um, the NFTs are really inexpensive. They’re like a couple bucks. And the

42:29

only reason is not so much to make money off of it or anything is that AI tokens

42:34

are it costs a lot to build a game right now. We’ve already made it pretty

42:39

efficient, but like if a lot of people come in at once, it’s going to like

42:42

start hitting our pocketbooks. So, we kind of have this like sponsorship route

42:47

where if you want to join right now, you can join our Discord, reach out to us.

42:52

We have an onboarding form and basically you make a profile like

42:56

after this uh y’all both I can send y’all and drop a NFT in your profile um

43:02

in your wallet attached to this and it’ll unlock the builder.

43:06

Um also on top of that the builder is still not like

43:10

it’s still finicky like it’s like it takes a lot of trial and error. It’s

43:13

only going to get better. Um but those are the two reasons why is just just

43:17

that. Um and and also to just add a little extra perks and early access to

43:23

those who have bought uh data drifter who were our early supporters. Um and

43:29

we’re going to have that in mind for always like uh if you’re a holder that

43:33

maybe you get uh um just extra items, perks, things in the future. Uh we

43:39

always want to be considerate of those that supported us early. So So yeah, I

43:42

can I can give you access uh to to do that um after this call.

43:46

Yeah. Yeah, man. That’d be fun, man. I love it. I can imagine some games like

43:52

uh there is that one like uh the Pilgrim game where, you know, goes across the

43:56

Pilgrim. Yes. Oregon Trail, right? Right.

43:59

Yeah. Organ Trail. See some fun spins to that where we could be like Fallout

44:05

crossover mutants. Like Yeah,

44:09

please do. Please do. I I would love to see uh and and I’m also seeing the first

44:15

person to actually make a game is actually called Realm of Synchry. So, I

44:20

was very excited even now when I opened it up. It’s the first time I’ve seen a

44:24

new person come and publish a game. So, it’s really exciting.

44:27

We still don’t have that many beta testers yet. We’re just little by little

44:31

rolling it out. Um so, kind of word of mouth kind of

44:35

things like this like I chat with y’all. I’m like, “Yeah, I’ll let I’ll I’ll get

44:38

y’all access um and see what kind of stuff you make.” And also, what’s kind

44:42

of cool is you can share that link of your job simulator and it’s like people

44:47

can um see it after the fact or they can even uh watch while you’re playing. Like

44:53

they can come in and see your game. So depending on what your game is like or

44:58

uh Well, it’s it’s not exactly streaming, but in a way it kind of is

45:02

like streaming your game of text. like they can come and just uh

45:07

uh uh spectate your game. Anybody can um

45:10

Okay. And we’re we’re looking at like

45:13

spectating building games so that maybe you you can open up your builder to

45:17

others to um to uh maybe build with you. We’re

45:22

adding remixing at some point where if you like a game, you could remix

45:26

somebody else’s game and they get royalties if you remix their game.

45:30

There’s a lot of routes and a lot of things on our wish list that we just

45:33

have to bit by bit build up. Cool, man.

45:37

I love the thing. I definitely, you know, play there. I I actually have DMT

45:41

in my Metamas wallet. I was going to go do this uh too because I just want I

45:46

want to see like the experience because I think that’s that’s the hard part out

45:50

there in the world is make sure every part, you know, works along the way too.

45:55

Like so help help support it. Yeah. Like I didn’t realize the DMT was was so

46:01

cheap even I thought it was a little bit more expensive.

46:05

Yeah, it’s g it’s gone down lately. They are about to launch their MMO and it’s

46:10

just been like delay after delay and everybody in the telegram is is it’s a

46:14

joke. It’s like, oh, it’s coming out in two weeks. It’s perpetually coming out

46:17

in two weeks. Um, but it is hard to launch an MMO. Like they they

46:22

they set their their goals are so lofty and the stuff that they’ve built. So, a

46:26

lot of people are just like waiting for it to launch. Um but uh Senko fun group

46:32

uh they make fun games. Um and looking forward to their uh it’s called like

46:37

Senko Quest. It’s like going to be very similar to Runescape. Um

46:42

it’s fun coming out soon.

46:43

I love Runescape. So So one thing Leon and I well one

46:49

mindset that Leon has got me into is we treat business kind of like a sport

46:54

where we keep on it. We funny enough put our money into it with like prediction

47:00

marketing some sometimes um like with press releases or with like earnings

47:04

call will Brian Armstrong say something when he is doing the earnings call for

47:09

Coinbase just for an example but you know one thing I want to kind of

47:14

like just talk about is how how’s the bit business side for

47:18

chain crap for you? I know you’ve been building it for a few years and I know

47:20

you’re slowly starting to roll out the product and I know you also got the

47:24

grand which congrats but what’s next for chain craft and where do you see your

47:30

where do you see chain craft going in the next let’s say by 2027 where do you

47:35

see it going yeah I mean by 2027 our goals are to

47:40

have yeah I don’t want to completely give out

47:44

the road map but um yeah have much more interact interactivity

47:49

creating NFTs. We’re going into when I mention items like we’re kind of setting

47:55

it up in a way that items or NFTs will be cards or look like cards because it’s

48:00

a very like tangible feeling thing than just like a generic, oh, I made a sword

48:04

and this NFT is just a picture of a sword. If everything kind of revolves

48:08

around this like uh constraint of looking and feeling like a card NFT,

48:13

there’s a lot more crossover in that. Um, so the game the the first thing that

48:20

we’re going to do is token DS. I think that’s our like wedge and foot into the

48:23

door of crypto space. Um, and really elevate the features for that. We

48:29

believe that’s our flywheel, our catalyst for getting a bit of our own

48:33

income and revenue. Uh, there’s incentive for you to create on the on

48:37

the space because you could get royalties. There’s incentive to uh refer

48:41

others because we’re going to also add referral fees. um that you could get. Uh

48:46

and that’s sort of what we’re hoping to work on uh the first quarter or two this

48:51

year. Um and ETH Denver is coming. Uh we’re going to try to really show off

48:57

our uh token DS, our test net token DS. Uh which when that comes out, I’ll sh

49:02

I’ll share with the alt 2. U there’s there’s it’s there’s already an early

49:06

version of that. Um, so by 2027, we would love to like be fully launched

49:11

with like a very basic product, maybe starting to get into some better

49:15

graphics, um, but really starting to build the community off of token DS and

49:20

into some of the the bigger phases that we really feel add more, uh, uh,

49:27

featurerich things to to the site. Um, yeah, and the game play.

49:33

Cool, man. Yeah, thanks for sharing. Um, let’s see. I only have like a handful of

49:37

questions left, but I don’t know if you have anything else in your mind, Leon,

49:42

that you want to share real quick or ask.

49:45

Not to put you in the spot. Cool, man. Um, yeah. So, you know,

49:50

thanks for sharing that, Ryan. So, I guess my final few questions are I’ll

49:55

kick it off by asking, um, you mentioned distribution. And you’ve already

50:00

mentioned like your monetization philosophy kind of like what you believe

50:04

you know is the what you should be doing as a web 3 platform or game building

50:09

games in web 3. Um but since you’re kind of getting things rolling you know what

50:15

is the number one metric or key performing indicator that you’re looking

50:20

for chain craft? Like is it players daily active users retention?

50:25

I think it’s retention honestly. Um, which is tricky right now because

50:30

retention is like some of the stuff here is like not it’s fun to come and tinker

50:36

with once or something and and maybe share it. Um, but I I really am going to

50:42

be looking close at retention um when token goes live. I that that’ll be this

50:48

like it’ll really tell us like is this catching with um with uh the crypto

50:55

audience that that we are aiming for and that’s our like sort of theory is is it

51:01

should um I I have been in it. I would love to have a setup like this to play.

51:06

Uh so I’m I’m building what I would want to play and and be a part of. So um

51:11

Cool, man. So you’re essentially building your own games.

51:15

Yeah. like I I’m just like nobody else is building it so I want to build a

51:18

builder to build the games I want to play. Like that’s that’s uh

51:22

that’s what I’m what I’m doing. Um so yeah, retention I think. So uh and

51:28

obviously like growth would be great, liquidity and people bringing uh funding

51:32

onto the site and and just to tap on that like like some of the some of the

51:37

issues in gaming right now are like credit cards and crypto do not work well

51:43

together. Um there’s a lot of onchain fiat or excuse me onchain you

51:49

mean on-ramp dollars to like crypto. Yeah. Yeah. So like those are some thing

51:55

everything is always like getting easier and easier over time. So a lot of stuff

52:00

that we’re utilizing now was not out like a year ago. Um but things like

52:05

like uh the things that we’re concerned about is like best method for bridging

52:10

without creating a lot of uh friction between other layers to our layer. Um

52:16

but also like um the ease of uh new money coming in uh

52:24

is also one of those one of those hurdles that um is not a dealbreaker but

52:28

it’s one of those that if it gets fixed at large or uh like if credit cards get

52:36

easier to use uh that would be like amazing. There would be a lot more boom

52:39

in the gaming industry and just apps in general with crypto. Um,

52:44

I believe it. I’m very bullish on crypto as a whole. I

52:47

could be doing like if I could do anything else in the world, I would say

52:51

no. I’m going to stick with crypto. But no, I see your point. Um, so and we’re

52:58

almost out of time here, but one thing I want I was thinking is you’ve mentioned

53:03

kind of like where you see crypto going in the next few years, especially with

53:07

gaming/crypto would be going in a few years, but like what do you think is the

53:13

bull and the bear case for onchain gaming? If you could like kind of give

53:18

us both scenarios and like what you think would lead it to either either

53:22

outcome. Yeah, I think I will start with the

53:27

bearish is still it’s just um sentiment right now both

53:35

sentiment that it’s so attached to a token a price

53:39

if Bitcoin Ethereum goes up down then it can have a negative impact people losing

53:46

money this or that I think the route that we’re going I like and I think I’m

53:52

bullish on this sort of route is like if you’re not just trying to create

53:57

something that is a token that you’re trying to like

54:01

have it number go up real fast. Uh but actually a slow and steady growth like

54:08

earning revenue through fees like a lot more by volume than by like uh quick big

54:16

uh volatile numbers. I think that really hurts the space. Uh, at least the gaming

54:22

space. There’s some people that just like the whole gambling space and will

54:25

always be there. Um, but I think for the gaming

54:28

if you uh like don’t try to like sell NFTts that are thousands of dollars,

54:35

like I mean those ages are those days are over. But like if you’re just like,

54:39

“Oh, I I’m I’m like a kid playing a game and

54:42

I want to pay play pay three bucks for a skin and then be able to sell it later

54:48

for three bucks again. At least I got that money back to buy another skin

54:51

later.” Like even just that like the kid wins, the player wins, the the the

54:57

platform wins because we get a fee. And so like it doesn’t have to be so big and

55:03

huge every single step of the way. I think there’s a lot to be said in that.

55:07

Um, forget I actually agree with you there. Um,

55:10

personally, I’ve seen I play I used to play Fortnite a lot and I’ll be brief. I

55:16

used to play Fortnite a lot. I have um I missed out on some of the early battle

55:20

passes, some of the skins you can no longer get on eBay since you can sell

55:24

everything on anything on eBay. Some people are selling accounts that are

55:27

like so old that have some of the original skins that you cannot get

55:31

anywhere else. They sell for like thousands of dollars.

55:34

One of my friends like a long time friend ago showed me he wanted this

55:37

particular skin and the account was selling for $5,500 and I was like, “Holy

55:41

[ __ ] that is a [ __ ] ton of money.” But yeah,

55:45

I agree with you. I think, you know, having this accessibility for people

55:50

because crypto is very like making money centric. I think that’s probably one of

55:55

the easiest ways to integrate it. But, you know, it’s it also surprises me that

56:00

we haven’t gone this far. Instead, we we went the route, hey, let’s sell some

56:04

dumbass monkey on an image, an image of a monkey and try to sell it for

56:09

thousands of dollars. You know, there’s almost no use case for that. But gaming,

56:13

I think that’s a real thing. I think, you know, gaming

56:17

culture has become so normal. It’s in some cases replacing media like

56:22

traditional media like movies, TV, you name it for entertainment. I think this

56:26

is the next big step as well. So, you know, what do you think gaming as a

56:33

whole would look like by 2030 in just a few years from now?

56:37

Um, I’d like to be very optimistic about it. Um,

56:40

right. I I still think it’ll take a little

56:44

longer, but who knows uh for the integration of like blockchain and

56:48

gaming because I mean right now gaming is can be stagnant where it’s just like

56:52

a lot of layoffs, a lot of risk off. Um, and that’s another reason of our genesis

56:57

or our like intro to chain crab was like what if there was another way for for

57:03

people to create games, iterate fast, uh, and since it’s multiplayer, you can

57:08

try to just focus on one little mechanic and see if it works and then build off

57:12

of that or even just sell that one mechanic as like a way to earn

57:16

royalties. And so because of that and the the atmosphere of like the the

57:21

gaming uh um at large right now, that’s that’s another reason why we got into

57:25

this. But if blockchain were to take off, I mean

57:30

it it would just I don’t know for me that it’s it’s not a

57:36

question of of if, it’s just when you know that cheesy saying, but it really

57:40

is. It just like it makes so much sense for gaming and owning your items to be

57:45

on the blockchain or just like having like there’s nothing else that really

57:49

competes with blockchain for the ability to trade items uh that are virtually so

57:55

or virtual items. So, it just makes sense. It’s going to happen. Um I hope

58:00

it happens that soon. Uh but you never know.

58:04

Thanks, man. Yeah, thanks for sharing that. Just before we close, where can we

58:09

find you on social media? And yeah, so um you can find

58:14

Yeah, you can find uh you can just go to play.chaincraft.game

58:19

and there you can see our Twitter, which is just chaincraftame. We’re on

58:23

Instagram, chaincraftgame. Um and definitely go to the Discord. If

58:27

anybody’s listening and is interested, please come like ping us in Discord. Um

58:32

and that link is just play.chaincraft.games. you’ll see the

58:36

Discord at the bottom. Um, and maybe you could do it in the show notes. I don’t

58:39

know. But, uh, yeah. Cool, man. Thanks for sharing. All

58:44

right. Um, I guess the only Do you have any closing statements you have for

58:49

everyone aside from just where to find you?

58:53

Um, just, uh, check us out if you want to have full access. Like, we can

58:57

sponsor you a pass. Uh, especially early on. Uh, I mean, passes are limited. Um,

59:03

but uh I’m glad you’re here and listening to this and interested in in

59:07

uh web 3 and gaming. And I mean, thank you all for having me. Thanks, man.

59:11

Yeah, this has been Social Ledger Report and we’ll be seeing you next week.

59:15

Thanks so much.